Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age,
Newsbot @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:57 am
Title: Calgary malls use facial recognition to track shoppers' age, gender without consent
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2018-07-26 07:45:46
Canadian
llama66 @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:57 am
Fun fact: There is reduced right to privacy on private property, CF properties all have disclaimers that state you will be photographed. Its a condition of entry. By entering onto the property you are consenting to the conditions of entry.
DrCaleb @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:09 am
llama66 llama66:
Fun fact: There is reduced right to privacy on private property, CF properties all have disclaimers that state you will be photographed. Its a condition of entry. By entering onto the property you are consenting to the conditions of entry.
Photography is one thing, but personal details may not be taken without consent. But running facial recognition and assigning age and gender, they cross the line.
https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topic ... ding-0-0-1
CharlesAnthony @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:11 am
Any ideas WHERE the secret camera is located??
llama66 @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:25 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
llama66 llama66:
Fun fact: There is reduced right to privacy on private property, CF properties all have disclaimers that state you will be photographed. Its a condition of entry. By entering onto the property you are consenting to the conditions of entry.
Photography is one thing, but personal details may not be taken without consent. But running facial recognition and assigning age and gender, they cross the line.
https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topic ... ding-0-0-1
You consent by entering onto the property. By using the facility you are agreeing to be bound by the rules and regulations of the property, if you don't there are other malls you can visit. It's not public property.
Remember its private property with a public invitation. That invitation can be rescinded at anytime for any reason.
PIPDA and FOIP are generally for public institutions and would only apply if the centre was releasing the information to a 3rd party.
DrCaleb @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:36 am
llama66 llama66:
PIPDA and FOIP are generally for public institutions and would only apply if the centre was releasing the information to a 3rd party.
$1:
In the private sector, surveillance through a video camera is subject to privacy laws. Under PIPEDA and the Alberta and British Columbia PIPAs, the information does not need to be recorded.
https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topic ... vs_080306/
Just running it through facial recognition, even if it's not recorded, is subject to PIPEDA.
$1:
Businesses must clearly identify the reasons for collecting personal information before or at the time of collection, and how it will be used. Explaining why personal information is needed is essential to obtaining valid consent from the individuals, which is another requirement of PIPEDA.
https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topic ... formation/
Most businesses don't realize that if they collect any 3 of; your name, address, phone number or email address; that they must have a copy of their privacy policy available at the point of collection.
(I do this for a living
I'm the focal for a lot of audits. )
llama66 @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:54 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
llama66 llama66:
PIPDA and FOIP are generally for public institutions and would only apply if the centre was releasing the information to a 3rd party.
$1:
In the private sector, surveillance through a video camera is subject to privacy laws. Under PIPEDA and the Alberta and British Columbia PIPAs, the information does not need to be recorded.
https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topic ... vs_080306/
Just running it through facial recognition, even if it's not recorded, is subject to PIPEDA.
$1:
Businesses must clearly identify the reasons for collecting personal information before or at the time of collection, and how it will be used. Explaining why personal information is needed is essential to obtaining valid consent from the individuals, which is another requirement of PIPEDA.
https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topic ... formation/
Most businesses don't realize that if they collect any 3 of; your name, address, phone number or email address; that they must have a copy of their privacy policy available at the point of collection.
(I do this for a living
I'm the focal for a lot of audits. )As do I, good sir. As do I.
These laws pertain to Retailers,I don't think it applies to private property owners and their agents in the manner you think it may. PIPDA only sets out guidelines for FR software.
DrCaleb @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:12 am
llama66 llama66:
As do I, good sir. As do I.
These laws pertain to Retailers,I don't think it applies to private property owners and their agents in the manner you think it may. PIPDA only sets out guidelines for FR software.
These laws pertain to Retailers,I don't think it applies to private property owners and their agents in the manner you think it may. PIPDA only sets out guidelines for FR software.
You might be right, I only know the law as it applies to my custodianship of the Alberta Tax database. I only know the other parts in passing, while studying the do's and don'ts of information handling.
I know certain parts of it directly apply to retailers, such as the collection of information. We'll see if the privacy Comissioner thinks these malls need a slap on the wrist.
Personally, I hope they do. I'm getting pretty tired of everyone trying to collect my data to use it to pester me.
BartSimpson @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:15 am
If the information is being collected only for statistical purposes and no names are being attached to the faces then it might be a permissible activity even under stringent privacy laws like the GDPR.
So long as the data is not retained or correlated to track anyone's visits there should not be a problem.
HOWEVER, you can expect law enforcement to start routinely seizing these records whenever the hell they feel like it and that will end up ruining this for everyone involved.
llama66 @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:33 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
If the information is being collected only for statistical purposes and no names are being attached to the faces then it might be a permissible activity even under stringent privacy laws like the GDPR.
So long as the data is not retained or correlated to track anyone's visits there should not be a problem.
HOWEVER, you can expect law enforcement to start routinely seizing these records whenever the hell they feel like it and that will end up ruining this for everyone involved.
So long as the data is not retained or correlated to track anyone's visits there should not be a problem.
HOWEVER, you can expect law enforcement to start routinely seizing these records whenever the hell they feel like it and that will end up ruining this for everyone involved.
Technically, Police would need an "Order to Produce" to obtain the information.
BartSimpson @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:49 am
llama66 llama66:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
If the information is being collected only for statistical purposes and no names are being attached to the faces then it might be a permissible activity even under stringent privacy laws like the GDPR.
So long as the data is not retained or correlated to track anyone's visits there should not be a problem.
HOWEVER, you can expect law enforcement to start routinely seizing these records whenever the hell they feel like it and that will end up ruining this for everyone involved.
So long as the data is not retained or correlated to track anyone's visits there should not be a problem.
HOWEVER, you can expect law enforcement to start routinely seizing these records whenever the hell they feel like it and that will end up ruining this for everyone involved.
Technically, Police would need an "Order to Produce" to obtain the information.
Truthfully, police have an irritating tendency to bully people into giving the cops what they want and they're not averse to making shit up to justify their actions.
"You have to show me your ID, it's the law!" (No, it isn't)
"You have to stop filming me because it's the law!" (No, it isn't)
"You can't make a complaint about me unless you show me your ID and explain what your problem is, it's the law!" (No, it isn't)
&etc.
llama66 @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:54 am
Lol... I hear ya. If they're dicks to me and they're not on a call, I've tossed them off my property and put a call into their watch commander.
BartSimpson @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:43 am
llama66 llama66:
Lol... I hear ya. If they're dicks to me and they're not on a call, I've tossed them off my property and put a call into their watch commander.
An acquaintance of mine who passed away some years ago had cops come on his very large property without his permission for some training exercise and he went out to tell them to leave. They told him to fuck off or get arrested for interfering.
He went back to his house and came back in his Tiger tank and insisted that they leave or get squished.
They left.
llama66 @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:32 pm
That's freaking awesome.
Zipperfish @ Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:33 pm
llama66 llama66:
Fun fact: There is reduced right to privacy on private property, CF properties all have disclaimers that state you will be photographed. Its a condition of entry. By entering onto the property you are consenting to the conditions of entry.
By continuing to be alive, you are consenting to give up all rights to privacy.
Here's where the libertarians could actually be of some use. Legislate all personal data as private property. Want to take my picture--you need a contract with me. Some people might sign up: "Sure profile me for $100/year or whatever." But otherwise stealing private information would be considered theft.