Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise
Newsbot @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:05 pm
<strong>Title: </strong> <a href="/link.php?id=27089" target="_blank">Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise</a> (click to view)
<strong>Category:</strong> <a href="/news/topic/13-military" target="_blank">Military</a>
<strong>Posted By: </strong> <a href="/modules.php?name=Your_Account&op=userinfo&username=Scape" target="_blank">Scape</a>
<strong>Date: </strong> 2007-11-13 10:29:11
Arctic_Menace @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:05 pm
This is ahrdly new. Haven't Canadian subs done this in the past?
Scape @ Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:14 pm
$1:
The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.
One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.
One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.
Yes, but they had no idea the song class was able to pull this off.
Arctic_Menace @ Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:17 pm
Isn't it basic knowledge/practice to never underestimate your enemy?
BartSimpson @ Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:23 pm
All of the stories on the net about this sound as if they're quoting each other. Also, this same thing happened last year and I was able to confirm it promptly - right now my friends on YIM from the five side hut are telling me there's no confirmation of this.
Scape @ Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:44 pm
$1:
The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.
China Sub's Rubber Coating Made It 'Invisible'
China has 13 of these subs so far.
Alt source
The last time this happened (2006).
sasquatch2 @ Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:08 pm
I discussed this with an associate who was a Soviet anti-submarine tech.
He laughed!!!
He admitted that had the song been drifting submerged, the fleet could have over-ran him but the risk of a collision by surfacing would be immense. He laughed at the rubber coating as nonsense in the face of active "pinging". Modern US active systems would sound like a sledge hammer hitting the hull rather than pebbles.
He opined that the US Naval units were not pinging because of all the flak by the save-the-whales crowd had made about this harming whales.
He had the opinion that if the song had flooded a tube or opened outer tube doors it would certainly be detected and targeted-----possible fire upon.....it's chance of survival would be NIL. To surface, the Song would have to blow tanks and once again be detected, pinged and targeted. He estimated no less than 20 individual anti-submarine systems would have locked on the unidentified contact.
If this had occurred the Song was likely pinged several times prior to breaking the surface.
He said SOP for Soviet subs which had been in such a situation to "play possum" and wait for the danger to go away. He said that in wartime any movement in such a situation would be suicidal----launching a torpedo in peace time would be suicidal.
Most modern navies have effective counter-measures against torpedoes----effective except in suicidal short ranges.
ridenrain @ Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:17 pm
Untill people start bleeding, this is just a game. Games take place on all sorts of levels.
dgthe3 @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:40 am
And it is also possible that the Americans detected the Chinese sub and then did nothing, knowing the Chinese wouldn't be so stupid as to start a war. Why? So that they don't reveal their capabilities unless they have to. Its a dangerous play if their guess is wrong. However, the Americans have a 50 year head start in playing games with submarines. And doing things like this have been the American military practice, keep the other guy guessing at what you are capable of. The Chinese, like the Soviets, need to show their power to the world and thus reveal and even overstate their capabilities.
Or the Chinese got the better of the Americans this time.
BartSimpson @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:49 am
dgthe3 dgthe3:
And it is also possible that the Americans detected the Chinese sub and then did nothing, knowing the Chinese wouldn't be so stupid as to start a war. Why? So that they don't reveal their capabilities unless they have to.
A lot of the USA's capabilities are kept secret for a really rainy day.
Good observation.
Also, making one's enemy overconfident about their own abilities and having them underestimate your capabilities is the first step to victory.
dgthe3 @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:53 am
"Know your enemy and know yourself and you need not fear the result of a thousand battles"
Oddly enough it was a Chinese general who said that first.
Scape @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:57 am
Shouldn't that tell you something?
sasquatch2 @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:32 am
save the whales and lose the fleet?
sasquatch2 @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:36 am
lily
$1:
Bart wrote:
The Pentagon discusses national security with a civilian on messenger?
$1:
- right now my friends on YIM from the five side hut are telling me there's no confirmation of this.
The Pentagon discusses national security with a civilian on messenger?
It's called "The Old Boy Network"...........an important resource for any military.
sasquatch2 @ Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:12 pm
No! But we do yell "HOOO--RAAHHH" a lot.