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http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/s ... 31&k=45514

How very typical in Edmonton. Here, a police officer can hit, maim or even kill innocent people and the courts say, "Well, he's just doing his job."

   

It's getting just comical, isn't it?

I get sick of the opinion columnists too. Ones that agree with a 'tribunals' decision in one instance, then disagree in another similar case. Based only on personal opinion, nothing more.

Apres pos that a similar ruling came down in NYC today.

   

In this case, boot, you and I disagree. You don't go to Whyte Ave, drunk, on a night after the Oilers have played in the playoffs, after riots have occurred on other nights when the oilers have played, disobey a cop's orders, then mouth off to him after he cuffs you, and expect not to have force used against you. Let's even assume some of what she says is true: that she was unaware of the recent history on Whyte, and was sober. She should have had the sense to know that it was a touchy situation and left long before she got involved in the incident. She suffered minor injuries. She was not shot, tasered, or pepper sprayed. I'm not familiar with the continuum of force and so I don't know what it would say would be reasonable, but I don't think his actions were unreasonable.

   

And in this case the injuries were caused by the fall, not the cop's blow to the head. She did a lip stand right on the edge of the curb, because her hands were behind her back. Now their training officers to grab hold of the victims arm so they don't fall over no matter how drunk they are, this also gives them more leverage when they swing.

   

Well, let's see. Strong police officer handcuffs 110 pound female - both hands behind the back, then grabs her, both his hands behind the head and throws her face first into the pavement with all his strength. She suffered a bruised face, chipped tooth, black eye . .

What words could possibly deserve that? WORDS. When words are met with physical violence, there is no justification. It should have been - "get in the car, you're going downtown".

Police claim they get no respect on the street. This is why.

   

   

To me it sounds as if you're saying that telling a police officer to piss off (or something similar) merits a head stun, even though you are handcuffed. Pardon me, but that is pure bullshit. Police officers need a thicker skin than that. Is it okay for him to shoot me if I tell him to fuck off? Or taser me if I tell him to eat shit?

I agree that alcohol was a factor, but his actions are, IMHO, inexcusable. His adrenaline ran high and if a photographer hadn't been nearby, this incident wouldn't get any attention. The photos however, speak of his intentions and general demeanor. He's snarling for God sakes when he smashes her face into the ground.

I've been on Whyte Ave and the Red Mile after teams won huge games in the Finals, and the only time I've seen problems were here in Edmonton. Look at previous incidents in this city and this is hardly an exception, but rather the rule. Police killing children in 'police chases' without a perp in sight or using lights/sirens, tasering people sleeping repeatedly, throwing them off balconies, setting up stings to nail elected police officials and reporters...sheesh. Just a few days ago, people were on here bitching about how corrupt the Mexicans are, but it seems like our police force and court system isn't much better, at least when it comes to dealing with excessive force and police abuse.

   

You don't have a fucking clue what a stun shot is do you. Man what a fantasy world you live in.

   

You'll note that he DIDN'T taser, shoot or pepper spray her. He didn't hit her with a club or flashlight. He hit her with his hand. He could have used way more force than he did, but didn't.



People say "the camera doesn't lie" but it does. Check Snopes here on pictures of Bush with binoculars with lens caps on. One pic they're on, the next they're off. The first gets used to make a joke about how dumb Bush is. "Duh, he's looking through binoculars with the lens caps on! Duh, he's stupid!" But what probably happened is that he held them up, saw that the lens caps were on, and then took the caps off. The point is that the lack of even a second's context on either side of the snapshot makes a single picture potentially inflammatory beyond what it warranted.



There's a world of difference between tasering a sleeping person, and using bodily force to subdue a person being actively resistant.

Yes, it was tragic when that poor Aleman boy died. You shouldn't go through that intersection at that speed in that direction even WITH sirens on, let alone without, and though a red light. The dip makes it impossible to see oncoming cars, at normal speed, not to mention speeding cars. That was just reckless. It was appalling that the same cop was in that sleep taser incident IIRC. If you ask me, that guy acted inappropriately in both cases. I don't know about the balcony incident, but I do know of an elevator shaft incident and I think that the cop in that case was dead wrong. I can't imagine why he thought it was a good idea to restrain a person against an elevator door. The Overtime sting was different in that there wasn't even any heat of the moment stress. 50 bullets into an unarmed man, necessitating in one cop's case a reload as Dr. Caleb pointed out, is clearly disproportionate. Who gets up after you empty a clip into them? The Dziekanski incident needs nothing more than a mention.

The difference between all those cases, except the Overtime case, and this one, is that Willis was not treated with anything approaching lethal force, and she didn't die. If she'd been sober, maybe she wouldn't have even fallen. Who knows. I'm not giving police carte blanche to use aggressive force in all situations. I just don't think that this case is one in which the force was unduly excessive.

   

ROFLMAO

Oh, I see, so it's OK to take a perp and head stun her, while handcuffed? How about hit her with a baton? Pepper spray? Taser?

I do know 50 rounds into an unarmed civillian is wrong, just I feel it is wrong to taser someone when no one is in jeapordy of physical harm. This cop was in no danger of being harmed physically by her words. There is no justification for it.

I guess you have no concept of right and wrong.



No, Hurley. He hit her with the whole sidewalk, using his entire weight. He could have used WORDS, just as she did.

And, what was she charged with again?

   

http://www.edmontonpolicewatch.org

   

Fine, I hadn't seen the other pictures, but I now have. But he still showed a hell of a lot more restraint than other officers did in other cases noted in this thread. He could have used words. Words like "M'am, please stop resisting"? Or "Please don't run away"? Or "Please come back here"? Or "Please turn yourself in to the police tomorrow after you've sobered up as you've been a naughty girl"?

I do note, as well, that her shirt said "the best way to behave is NOT to."

   

Her shirt isn't illegal. Hopefully, never will be.

Edit: But, that is kind of the point isn't it? Officers should have far greater tolerance and restraint. Unchecked, that leads to abuse.

   

I'm not saying her shirt was illegal, or ever should be. I'm saying that it speaks to her attitude.

As to the whole issue, allow me to illustrate:

   

I agree photos can be twisted in any number of ways. Let's take the picture of her shirt, saying "The best way to behave is not to". Just because she is wearing a shirt with a smartass slogan doesn't mean she was smashing windows or burning phone booths. The only one who said she was resisting was the cop who smashed her face into the sidewalk.

Hurley, my point is not that most cops are good people trying to do a shitty job. They are. I've talked to probably half a dozen cops in the last year and they were all kind, courteous and knowledgeable. But there's a reason that there's a saying "One bad apples ruins it for the rest of us."

My point is that the bad cops get away with pretty much anything. I honestly can not remember the last time any police officer in any of these high profile cases in Edmonton ever got more punishment than a few days at his desk (with pay). Perhaps if these guys received more than a high five in the lunch room, people wouldn't make such a big deal out of them.

   

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