Environment minister says Albertans are accepting carbon tax
DrCaleb @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:30 am
Got a look at the girlfriends' gas bill. $40 for gas, in the coldest month of the year. $3 for GST. $2 and change for Carbon tax. Seems pretty reasonable.
But $60 for delivery charges and 'rate riders' whatever that is. Why is no one bitching about that? But less than $3 for carbon tax, and people bust a blood vessel.
uwish uwish:
There is $15.75 cents carbon tax on my methane bill this month.
If you are using $240 in gas in a month, you might consider insulating the attic and getting new windows.
Lemmy Lemmy:
He's heating with coal? Is he Welsh?
3 days later, and I'm still giggling over that.
bootlegga @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:06 am
uwish uwish:
bootlegga bootlegga:
I think the word Phillips is looking for is resigned to the carbon tax, not acceptance.
As I've said many times, I'm fine with a carbon tax, just not this version of a carbon tax. Even the province's progressive opposition (Liberals and Alberta Party) voted against the tax.
I certainly don't like the idea of giving 60% of Alberta households rebates, as it reduces people's incentive to reduce their carbon footprint. It's one thing to give the bottom 20% a break, but 60%?
As Greg Clark noted:
The NDP can frame this however they want, but this more an income re-distribution scheme than a carbon tax.
I also worry about the notion of using carbon tax revenue to fund projects - the PCs ran the province for more than 4 decades and still made lots of mistakes when they tried picking winners in the market (Gainers, Principal Trust, etc.), and I doubt am inexperienced government like Notley's is going to do any better.
As I've said many times, I'm fine with a carbon tax, just not this version of a carbon tax. Even the province's progressive opposition (Liberals and Alberta Party) voted against the tax.
I certainly don't like the idea of giving 60% of Alberta households rebates, as it reduces people's incentive to reduce their carbon footprint. It's one thing to give the bottom 20% a break, but 60%?
As Greg Clark noted:
$1:
After crunching the numbers comparing the aggregate rebate amount to energy consumption, the Alberta Party estimates Albertans will be overpaid by $225 million over a two-year span of the program.
"Look, I think there's a political agenda here from the NDP," Alberta Party Leader Greg Clark said Tuesday.
Clark said his party came up with the calculations using Statistics Canada's social policy simulation database and model.
"I think they're trying to bribe Albertans with not only their own money, but with other people's money, to get them on board with their carbon tax plan," he said, portraying the rebates as ineffective and overly generous.
For those earning less than $80,000 a year, Clark said, the rebates are almost 150 per cent higher than the actual household energy cost. He said that does nothing to persuade Albertans to use less energy.
"Look, I think there's a political agenda here from the NDP," Alberta Party Leader Greg Clark said Tuesday.
Clark said his party came up with the calculations using Statistics Canada's social policy simulation database and model.
"I think they're trying to bribe Albertans with not only their own money, but with other people's money, to get them on board with their carbon tax plan," he said, portraying the rebates as ineffective and overly generous.
For those earning less than $80,000 a year, Clark said, the rebates are almost 150 per cent higher than the actual household energy cost. He said that does nothing to persuade Albertans to use less energy.
The NDP can frame this however they want, but this more an income re-distribution scheme than a carbon tax.
I also worry about the notion of using carbon tax revenue to fund projects - the PCs ran the province for more than 4 decades and still made lots of mistakes when they tried picking winners in the market (Gainers, Principal Trust, etc.), and I doubt am inexperienced government like Notley's is going to do any better.
He doesn't' want to hear that, it's against his climate religion!
Who is "he"?
uwish @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:58 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Got a look at the girlfriends' gas bill. $40 for gas, in the coldest month of the year. $3 for GST. $2 and change for Carbon tax. Seems pretty reasonable.
But $60 for delivery charges and 'rate riders' whatever that is. Why is no one bitching about that? But less than $3 for carbon tax, and people bust a blood vessel.
If you are using $240 in gas in a month, you might consider insulating the attic and getting new windows.
But $60 for delivery charges and 'rate riders' whatever that is. Why is no one bitching about that? But less than $3 for carbon tax, and people bust a blood vessel.
uwish uwish:
There is $15.75 cents carbon tax on my methane bill this month.
If you are using $240 in gas in a month, you might consider insulating the attic and getting new windows.
I don't spend $240 on gas, where did I say that? I have a newer house with outstanding insulation, and if you have read some of my previous post on the 'other' fees you will clearly see me complaining about how my usages (methane or utility) is usually LESS THAN HALF of the bill! How they can get away with variable administrative fees I still can't get an answer to.
Enmax called me asking if I wanted to go paperless billing, I asked if the Admin fee would go away and they said 'No' so FUCK YOU then your sending me a bill the 'old fashioned way' My total 'gas' bill way $160 of which $15.75 was carbon tax (my usage was only $74). I as of yet have not received my utility bill (power) from Enmax. But it will be similar I am sure. I live in a 3100 Sq foot house (total living space) and my total utility bills are around $300 / month and $80 /month for gas. I was freezing in Calgary last month, hence the high usage of methane.
I can keep my utility bills relativity low when comparing to other homes of similar size / vintage because I only have LED lighting and tripled pained windows, combined with a high efficiency furnace, there is nothing more I can do to improve my homes efficiency.
DrCaleb @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:05 am
uwish uwish:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
uwish uwish:
There is $15.75 cents carbon tax on my methane bill this month.
If you are using $240 in gas in a month, you might consider insulating the attic and getting new windows.
I don't spend $240 on gas, where did I say that?
You said you got a bill with $15.75 in carbon tax. At $1.517 per gigajoule, that means you spent around $240 in natural gas in order for your carbon tax to equal that. And delivery costs would be in the $450 - $500 range.
That means you keep your home at 35C, or it's leaking heat like a rickety shack would.
uwish @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:07 am
NOPE your wrong again my friend. But nice assumptions, I keep my house at 21C
DrCaleb @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:20 am
uwish uwish:
NOPE your wrong again my friend. But nice assumptions, I keep my house at 21C
You are correct. I was wrong. Natural Gas is $1.011/Gj this year. It goes up to $1.517 in 2018. So I'd calculate it closer to $250, in order to pay that much carbon tax.
uwish @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:38 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
uwish uwish:
NOPE your wrong again my friend. But nice assumptions, I keep my house at 21C
You are correct. I was wrong. Natural Gas is $1.011/Gj this year. It goes up to $1.517 in 2018. So I'd calculate it closer to $250, in order to pay that much carbon tax.
wrong again
Energy Used 17.37GJ
Delivery charges fixed $23.85
Delivery charges variable $13.92
Rate Riders $18.99
Municipal Franchise Fee $13.31
Carbon Levy $15.92
Sub total is $85.99 with $4.30 GST total bill $164.19 so $74 was the COST of my USAGE with that wonderful 'Levy' we all know is a tax!
I can't post an image of the bill because I am at work and they block public media storage sites...
DrCaleb @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:44 am
uwish uwish:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
uwish uwish:
NOPE your wrong again my friend. But nice assumptions, I keep my house at 21C
You are correct. I was wrong. Natural Gas is $1.011/Gj this year. It goes up to $1.517 in 2018. So I'd calculate it closer to $250, in order to pay that much carbon tax.
wrong again
Energy Used 17.37GJ
Delivery charges fixed $23.85
Delivery charges variable $13.92
Rate Riders $18.99
Municipal Franchise Fee $13.31
Carbon Levy $15.92
Sub total is $85.99 with $4.30 GST total bill $164.19 so $74 was the COST of my USAGE with that wonderful 'Levy' we all know is a tax!
I can't post an image of the bill because I am at work and they block public media storage sites...
See, now that's funny. All those charges to 'sell' you gas through a pre-existing pipe to your house, and you bitch about the second smallest charge.
And you're getting a good deal! I wouldn't complain with those gas charges.
uwish @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:47 am
it's not about 'the smallest charge' I bitch because it's another charge that makes my bill larger. And we are not yet at $50/T that charge will go to approximately $45 for the same usage by 2019. Then it will be the LARGEST of those charges. And it isn't the smallest on on that list is it? clearly there are two that are smaller!
in 2019, my gas bill will go up by $300 along in just 'carbon levy', so how in the world do people think or believe the government assessment that the 'average' cost to families will only be ~$450. That is just my GAS BILL, one of which YOU Dr Caleb admit is already a 'GOOD DEAL' I have a utility bill that will be virtually the same. This only verifies my assertion that there has been virtually NO cost benefit analysis of what this will REALLY cost consumers.
But hey, I shouldn't complain because it's a good deal right? I know where this is leading, when people are forced into huge rate riders because of this carbon tax and they can't afford to pay them. Then what? I get to subsidize more of those poor soles making $90k/yr? This is complete madness.
Lemmy @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:10 am
C
uwish @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:13 am
another useless response
DrCaleb @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:19 am
uwish uwish:
That is just my GAS BILL, one of which YOU Dr Caleb admit is already a 'GOOD DEAL' I have a utility bill that will be virtually the same.
Carbon tax is not applicable to other utilities, such as water, sewer and electricity. If you are being charged it, get in touch with Alberta Consumer protection.
And yes, it's a good deal. Try purifying your own water, operating your own septic system, or heating your home with propane and wood and you'll quickly see it's worth the money.
Lemmy @ Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:26 am
_
uwish @ Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:23 pm
OH so you are finally admitting that the rebates are really nothing more than wealth re-distribution and have ZERO impact on anything climate. Well done! it only took you a few months to realize that!