Environmentalism: Religion for the Godless
Zipperfish @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:30 am
JetBoy JetBoy:
Brenda Brenda:
Sure you do. I don't use plastic bags either. But why is that? Why do you go to work on a bicycle? Is that because of the environment, or because plastic bags are a pain in the neck, and they rip when you put to much in it? Do you ride a bicycle because of the environment, or because a car is too expensive, and it is a pain to park it each day?
And these are the easy things. What about the rest? You do your laundry by hand? Don't vacation because jet fuel is so bad?
Remember, I said WE, in my initial post.
And these are the easy things. What about the rest? You do your laundry by hand? Don't vacation because jet fuel is so bad?
Remember, I said WE, in my initial post.
I take the electric Skytrain (public transit) to commute to work. It has nothing to do with costs because I have a car here at home that I use when I need it. I use cloth bags instead of plastic bags to prevent the bags from going in landfills. I've only been on an airplane twice in my life and stay locally when I'm on vacation. I don't do my laundry by hand but I do use an expensive all-natural detergent. Same with my dishes. I recycle everything I can and try and buy items with little or no packaging. I buy mostly organic local foods, which is much more expensive. I don't use any harsh cleaning agents and instead use all-natural agents, which again are much more expensive.
I agree with you that we can never be totally environmentally-friendly but we do the best we can. Where I don't agree with you is that it's always money-driven. I spend more money being environmentally-conscious than not.
Good for you. You're obviously a moral person. Most people claim to care about the environment--until they actually have to sacrifice something to protect it. (The Conservatives, in fact, are relying on this in thier environmental platform which is long on rhetoric, short on action).
But don't you think things would work better if the environment and econmics were aligned? Pay for insurance based on the miles you actually drive. Pay for your water based on how much you use. Pay someone to take your garbage away (not the city).
.02
Omega @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:32 am
Brenda Brenda:
I have to do your homework for you? Don't think so sweety!
Um, I've already done my homework and it's not my job to educate you. You're the ignorant one regarding the subject here and I've told you where do go to learn more, but you have chosen not to.
But I'll post some links as a favour...
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/rel ... 3/pr27/en/
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/590100.stm
http://www.newstarget.com/007120.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3076645/
ziggy @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:33 am
JetBoy JetBoy:
Tricks Tricks:
I didn't say I was.
Then don't back Bart up when he's trying to tell me environmentalism will hurt future generations more than it will help.
Omega @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:36 am
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
But don't you think things would work better if the environment and econmics were aligned? Pay for insurance based on the miles you actually drive. Pay for your water based on how much you use. Pay someone to take your garbage away (not the city).
Sounds good to me.
Omega @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:37 am
ziggy ziggy:
Well it will,especially radical environuts,the founder of greenpeace resides in Van and broke ties with them for their illegal activities.
If saving the environment is so harmful then why do you brag about doing just that?
Brenda @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:49 am
JetBoy JetBoy:
Brenda Brenda:
Sure you do. I don't use plastic bags either. But why is that? Why do you go to work on a bicycle? Is that because of the environment, or because plastic bags are a pain in the neck, and they rip when you put to much in it? Do you ride a bicycle because of the environment, or because a car is too expensive, and it is a pain to park it each day?
And these are the easy things. What about the rest? You do your laundry by hand? Don't vacation because jet fuel is so bad?
Remember, I said WE, in my initial post.
And these are the easy things. What about the rest? You do your laundry by hand? Don't vacation because jet fuel is so bad?
Remember, I said WE, in my initial post.
I take the electric Skytrain (public transit) to commute to work. It has nothing to do with costs because I have a car here at home that I use when I need it. I use cloth bags instead of plastic bags to prevent the bags from going in landfills. I've only been on an airplane twice in my life and stay locally when I'm on vacation. I don't do my laundry by hand but I do use an expensive all-natural detergent. Same with my dishes. I recycle everything I can and try and buy items with little or no packaging. I buy mostly organic local foods, which is much more expensive. I don't use any harsh cleaning agents and instead use all-natural agents, which again are much more expensive.
I agree with you that we can never be totally environmentally-friendly but we do the best we can. Where I don't agree with you is that it's always money-driven. I spend more money being environmentally-conscious than not.
You are too good to be true
Still, using the sky-train (something I really have to use someday...) is not so much environmentally, as it is easy (imo). And that is what I mean. Cloth bags are easier than plastic. I use a plastic crate. My point is, do we do these things because we want to make our life easier, or because it is good for the environment? I am not giving up my luxuries, we have 2 cars at the moment, a washing machine, a dryer, but I recycle what I can. I hate all the plastic packaging around every product I buy (but why? Because I have to throw it away, or because I can't open it in a normal way?) Do we do something extra, or do we just not think about it? If we were all so environmental-friendly, why are we not complaining about all that plastic, and stop buying that stuff?
$1:
Where I don't agree with you is that it's always money-driven. I spend more money being environmentally-conscious than not.
Exactly my point. So who is making money over this? To be environmentally concious costs a lot of money. EVERYthing is about money. Why do environmental-friendly products cost more then other products? Why is it all taxed in the way it is? some one has to profit.
Like I said, there are very little people who are that environmental friendly they are willing to give up all luxuries and grow their food themselves, don't own a car, etc, all for the environment.
We all do our little thing, but that is because it is easy or PC.
Brenda @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:51 am
JetBoy JetBoy:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
But don't you think things would work better if the environment and econmics were aligned? Pay for insurance based on the miles you actually drive. Pay for your water based on how much you use. Pay someone to take your garbage away (not the city).
Sounds good to me.
we already do that here. You don't? (this is a serious question!)
Brenda @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:59 am
JetBoy JetBoy:
Brenda Brenda:
I have to do your homework for you? Don't think so sweety!
Um, I've already done my homework and it's not my job to educate you. You're the ignorant one regarding the subject here and I've told you where do go to learn more, but you have chosen not to.
But I'll post some links as a favour...
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/rel ... 3/pr27/en/
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/590100.stm
http://www.newstarget.com/007120.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3076645/
All these links provide statistics over the past 15-20 years, and assumptions for the coming 20-30 years. That is not what I meant.
300 years ago, people didn't get as old as we do now. Why? Because they died of cancer and that was not detected, or even known? Or was it mal nutricion? Or both?
ziggy @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:22 am
JetBoy JetBoy:
ziggy ziggy:
Well it will,especially radical environuts,the founder of greenpeace resides in Van and broke ties with them for their illegal activities.
If saving the environment is so harmful then why do you brag about doing just that?
Uhhhhh,I bragged? The founder of Greenpeace left because of its militancy,sorry if your too young to have followed the whole thing and instead jumped on a bandwagon.
Carry on.
Zipperfish @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:27 am
Brenda Brenda:
JetBoy JetBoy:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
But don't you think things would work better if the environment and econmics were aligned? Pay for insurance based on the miles you actually drive. Pay for your water based on how much you use. Pay someone to take your garbage away (not the city).
Sounds good to me.
we already do that here. You don't? (this is a serious question!)
Nope. Water's the same price (i.e. part of your municipal taxes) whether you use one gallon or twenty thousand. Not much incentive to conserve. Want to recycle--good for you. But you don't have to--the city will haul off your garbage anyways. Not much incentive to recycle. For car insurance you get a bit of a discount for "personal use only." But bascially you pay the same if you drive a hundred miles or ten thousand.
Omega @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:29 am
ziggy ziggy:
Uhhhhh,I bragged? The founder of Greenpeace left because of its militancy,sorry if your too young to have followed the whole thing and instead jumped on a bandwagon.
Carry on.
Carry on.
I'm not young.
And I'm not talking about Greenpeace either. Out-of-the-blue you just threw that irrelevant factoid at me to look smart.
Omega @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:31 am
Brenda Brenda:
we already do that here. You don't? (this is a serious question!)
Some do.
Omega @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:37 am
Brenda Brenda:
Still, using the sky-train (something I really have to use someday...) is not so much environmentally, as it is easy (imo). And that is what I mean.
No way, driving my car to work is easier. Much easier.
Brenda Brenda:
Cloth bags are easier than plastic. I use a plastic crate. My point is, do we do these things because we want to make our life easier, or because it is good for the environment?
Again, I find plastic bags easier. Those cloth bags are a PITA I find. I have to remember to bring them with me. Sometimes there's too many bags for the amount of groceries I buy. Sometimes there's not enough. Sometimes they have to be washed.
Brenda Brenda:
Exactly my point. So who is making money over this? To be environmentally concious costs a lot of money. EVERYthing is about money. Why do environmental-friendly products cost more then other products? Why is it all taxed in the way it is? some one has to profit.
It costs more money because it costs more to produce. And of course they have to profit. They have to make a living to pay their bills and feed their children just like anyone else.
Omega @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:40 am
Brenda Brenda:
All these links provide statistics over the past 15-20 years, and assumptions for the coming 20-30 years. That is not what I meant.
They describe how cancer rates are increasing, especially that one in regards to Canada. Did you read it? Cancer rates in Canada are going up each year but people aren't living any longer from one year to the next. With smoking on the decrease you'd think it would be getting better.
Brenda @ Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:45 am
JetBoy JetBoy:
Brenda Brenda:
All these links provide statistics over the past 15-20 years, and assumptions for the coming 20-30 years. That is not what I meant.
They describe how cancer rates are increasing, especially that one in regards to Canada. Did you read it? Cancer rates in Canada are going up each year but people aren't living any longer from one year to the next. With smoking on the decrease you'd think it would be getting better.
Yeah, I read it. Still, that is not what I asked for. Of course rates are increasing, because we are able to detect it more easily.