Erin O�Toole is the new leader of the Conservative Party, wins on third ballot
Scape @ Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:14 pm
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
Robair Robair:
I'm excited about O'Toole.
I’d say you’re in an elite group there. O’Toole’s dullness may be an advantage in the next election, a Chretienesque ordinary guy who made his own luck as opposed to the glamorous and increasingly irritating scion of political royalty currently in charge. If he wants to convert enough right-wing Liberal voters, however, he’s going to have to draw a clear line between himself and the social conservatives in his party and keep them relatively quiet.
That logic hold up unless Justin bows out and endorses Freeland as PM. Then all those attack ads will go to waste and I would not put it past the Liberals to be that Machiavellian.
Thanos @ Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:34 pm
Trudeau's perpetually safe because he occupies that same "first in our hearts" territory that Chretien had, that comes with all the safety to do what he wants whenever he wants. Blackface was merely Trudeau's version of Trump saying that he could shoot someone and the fans would still love him.
fifeboy @ Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:59 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Also only teenagers dream of “matching industrial, economic or military might” of the major powers. It’s not a contest, grow up. It’s about the quality of life for your citizens which I would say is much better in Canada than US,Russia or China. You couldn't pay me to live in any of those counties and most Canadians would agree.
Agreed and well said.
Sunnyways @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:19 am
How many times do people have to hear it - countries exist for the benefit of their citizens, not vice versa. 34 years ago, I chose to move to Canada rather the US because I thought it offered a better quality of life and I’d definitely do the same today.
One other thing. I’ve never heard of a man called Erin before. It’s one of those North American names which come from Irish geographic features or surnames like Shannon, Murphy or Kelly that are usually the preserve of females. I thought it was Aaron at first.
DrCaleb @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:21 am
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
How many times do people have to hear it - countries exist for the benefit of their citizens, not vice versa.
Often enough to counter the right wing tendency to assert the opposite; that people exist to serve their country.
FieryVulpine @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:54 am
It's absolutely adorable that Beave keeps missing the point, but then again, he is *Mod Edit*. If he wants to to play that game. Fine. How's this for an example? Ontario's dalliance with renewables under the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals led to higher hydro rates and it appears that the Liberals in Ottawa want to impose it on a national level. Incentives for electric vehicles largely benefit the rich, and that does not factor in that heavy transport still needs hydrocarbons for fuel or that renewables are still too inefficient (for example, solar cell efficiency is usually around 15-20% though I've read that the ones powering the ISS are 33%) to be reliable power sources even in the long term. If the LPC plan to "green" our infrastructure is similar, then I could imagine a spike in power prices, which in turn raises cost of living unless we transition to nuclear and use renewables as a supplemental source. Unfortunately, the left wings believes that it is renewables or bust so I suppose we can look forward to rolling blackouts.
That does not factor in the cost of such a program. COVID-19 left the country with a $350B+ deficits after four years of 10-digit deficits. Such green programs will push the deficits even higher, which will led to harsh austerity down the road as was the the case under the Chretien Liberals in the early 1990s. Considering that the Liberals have knee-capped the energy sector due to their magical thinking, a significant portion of the GDP (nearly 10%) will be gone and "renewables" will not cover that gap, social spending will inevitably be slashed to service debt payments.
The left wing has always had the tendency to believe that people are property of the state and thus can impose their will unopposed when in power. Honestly, by now I'm simply sitting back and watching the rabble on the west coast and central Canada prattle on about their green fantasies. They are blissfully unaware that it is not so much a green "New Deal"(which did little to alleviate the the Great Depression anyway) as it is a "Great Leap Forward." It will be amusing to see them drive the country off a cliff with living standards following shortly thereafter.
CDN_PATRIOT @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:07 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
O'Toole is too socially conservative, and Mackay is socially liberal - but an asshole. Sloan was a bigger asshole, and Lewis, although a smart lady, wanted to re-open the abortion debate and wanted to limit MAID.
I was pulling for O'Toole when the leadership race was first announced. MacKay is too much of a has-been and Red Tory, and doesn't offer much substance.
Sloan is a huge assshole that was big on slogans but had absolutely NOTHING to contribute to the Conservative party aside from chest thumping and empty rhetoric.
In the last few months, I became VERY impressed with Dr. Lewis and her vision for the future of Canada while preserving the past. A very intelligent and articulate woman that should have been the new leader. She could have brought a whole new dynamic to the party, and brought more people together than every before.
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
They will remain an opposition party as long as they cling to these 1950's ideals.
I don't think so. People that were hardcore Trudeau/Liberal supporters are having massive doubts as of late, especially in the wake of ME and the other scandals/breach of ethics.
My parents have been Liberal for life, and even they have become jaded with Trudeau and are cursing him. While they're nowhere near likely to vote Conservative, they are seriously considering the NDP as an alternative.
Personally, I've been a staunch Conservative since I crossed the floor back in 2007. The one thing that pissed me off enough to let my membership expire two years ago was Andrew Scheer. There are many in the party that couldn't stand the fact he became leader, among other things.
His conduct as leader quickly made me leave the CPC and join the PPC for the last election. Unfortunately, it became apparent right after the election that Maxime Bernier (who I thought was being proactive) is nothing but a whiny crybaby who seems to bitch and moan about everything, no matter what.
The CPC could have done a hell of a lot worse than O'Toole, and now the leadership thing is over, I'll be re-joining the CPC and getting a new membership. The PPC wasn't the answer that some of us were looking for.
Here's hoping O'Toole has a solid plan. He'll need it.
-J.
DrCaleb @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:33 am
CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
They will remain an opposition party as long as they cling to these 1950's ideals.
I don't think so. People that were hardcore Trudeau/Liberal supporters are having massive doubts as of late, especially in the wake of ME and the other scandals/breach of ethics.
Ethics are one thing, the 1950's ideals I mean are things like controlling a woman's body, or designating refugees and immigrants as 'undesirable'.
The Conservative Party has been fostering these sentiments since they decided to drop 'Progressive' as one of their ideals. They'd stand a better chance in Government if they became the Fiscally Conservative/Socially Liberal party they replaced.
O'Toole won't change that. Mckay was a step in that direction, but in some ways I'd rather see Jagmeet Singh as PM than Mckay.
CDN_PATRIOT @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:49 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Ethics are one thing, the 1950's ideals I mean are things like controlling a woman's body, or designating refugees and immigrants as 'undesirable'.
Because Trudeau's mantra of letting in everyone has worked so well for Canada
I'm sorry, but we need to get tougher on who we let in, and if that means offending some of the snowflakes, than so be it. I'd rather see immigrants that can contribute and WANT to be here and help Canada rather than bargain basement refugees that come here for a free ride all thanks to Little Potato.
I used to work with several immigrants that literally came here because they said that "We can do anything in Canada. So many ways to avoid the system and get free stuff!".
I'm not joking. Now, there are lots of people who WANT to come here and be Canadian and become functioning members of society. We need more people that can properly integrate into Canada and help move it forward, but instead, we get people that join the clusters of their own kind, don't bother to learn english (even though IT'S A FREE SERVICE), and give the finger to everyone else while collecting cheques and freebies from the government.
It's ridiculous what it allowed to happen nowadays. I've never seen it so bad.
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
The Conservative Party has been fostering these sentiments since they decided to drop 'Progressive' as one of their ideals. They'd stand a better chance in Government if they became the Fiscally Conservative/Socially Liberal party they replaced.
Then we wouldn't really have a Conservative party at all. That is not good.
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
O'Toole won't change that. Mckay was a step in that direction, but in some ways I'd rather see Jagmeet Singh as PM than Mckay.
1) MacKay is a has-been. He stepped into the leadership ring too late.
2) O'Toole might surprise us all and actually do some good. I think he deserves at least a chance to show us. After all, ANYONE is better than Scheer.
3) Singh as PM would be the end of Canada. Period. He's 10 times worse than Trudeau, and his head has even more vacant space.
-J.
DrCaleb @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:10 am
CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Ethics are one thing, the 1950's ideals I mean are things like controlling a woman's body, or designating refugees and immigrants as 'undesirable'.
Because Trudeau's mantra of letting in everyone has worked so well for Canada
I'm sorry, but we need to get tougher on who we let in, and if that means offending some of the snowflakes, than so be it. I'd rather see immigrants that can contribute and WANT to be here and help Canada rather than bargain basement refugees that come here for a free ride all thanks to Little Potato.
I used to work with several immigrants that literally came here because they said that "We can do anything in Canada. So many ways to avoid the system and get free stuff!".
I'm not joking. Now, there are lots of people who WANT to come here and be Canadian and become functioning members of society. We need more people that can properly integrate into Canada and help move it forward, but instead, we get people that join the clusters of their own kind, don't bother to learn english (even though IT'S A FREE SERVICE), and give the finger to everyone else while collecting cheques and freebies from the government.
It's ridiculous what it allowed to happen nowadays. I've never seen it so bad.
I know people born here with the same attitude. It has nothing to do with being an immigrant. But the Conservatives play people into thinking it does.
What happened to those 50,000 people who were given refugee status in 2015? I know what hasn't happened. Crime. All the Conservatives predicting a huge surge in problems continuing from their homeland being brought to Canada seem to have been wrong.
We did the same thing in the 70's and 80's with people escaping Vietnam. Studies show they became hard workers and high wage earners, with their children becoming even higher earners, and higher tax payers.
But the CPC would have you believe otherwise, but confusing people by equating immigrants and refugees with terms like 'border jumpers' or 'queue jumpers' or Ezras favourite, 'rapefugees'. Of which they are none.
As for values:
$1:
[Leslyn} Lewis said she's firmly opposed to the federal government's push to ban conversion therapy — the practice of using psychological or spiritual counselling to attempt to change the sexual orientation of someone who identifies as LGBTQ2 to heterosexual.
. . .
On abortion, Lewis has told her supporters that she is "pro-life, no hidden agenda."
If elected party leader, she said, she would move to ban sex-selective abortions, criminalize coercive abortions, increase funding for pregnancy centres that counsel women about their alternatives to ending a pregnancy and end funding for international abortions through Canada's foreign aid.
. . .
On abortion, Lewis has told her supporters that she is "pro-life, no hidden agenda."
If elected party leader, she said, she would move to ban sex-selective abortions, criminalize coercive abortions, increase funding for pregnancy centres that counsel women about their alternatives to ending a pregnancy and end funding for international abortions through Canada's foreign aid.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/leslyn ... -1.5492123
And the response from the other candidates in the running? Crickets.
The truth is uncomfortable, isn't it?
Now, O'Toole may do some good. Not everyone is 100% good or 100% evil. But until they adopt policies in line with the way Canadians currently think and feel, that good will be limited.
DrCaleb @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:35 am
Erin O'Toole: Canadians want leaders who respect them enough to tell them the truth
No bias in the CBC, is there? 
herbie @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:39 pm
$1:
The left wing has always had the tendency to believe that people are property of the state and thus can impose their will unopposed when in power. Honestly, by now I'm simply sitting back and watching the rabble on the west coast and central Canada prattle on about their green fantasies.
and Conservatives aren't stuck in a 1950s fantasy of suburbian glory? DO tell us....
raydan @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:47 pm
As soon as his post start with a personal attack, I stop reading... and he does that often.
Scape @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:18 pm
raydan raydan:
As soon as his post start with a personal attack, I stop reading... and he does that often.
Astute observation and good advice.
BeaverFever @ Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:33 pm
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
It's absolutely adorable that Beave keeps missing the point, but then again, he is *Mod Edit*. If he wants to to play that game. Fine. How's this for an example? Ontario's dalliance with renewables under the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals led to higher hydro rates and it appears that the Liberals in Ottawa want to impose it on a national level. Incentives for electric vehicles largely benefit the rich, and that does not factor in that heavy transport still needs hydrocarbons for fuel or that renewables are still too inefficient (for example, solar cell efficiency is usually around 15-20% though I've read that the ones powering the ISS are 33%) to be reliable power sources even in the long term. If the LPC plan to "green" our infrastructure is similar, then I could imagine a spike in power prices, which in turn raises cost of living unless we transition to nuclear and use renewables as a supplemental source. Unfortunately, the left wings believes that it is renewables or bust so I suppose we can look forward to rolling blackouts.
That does not factor in the cost of such a program. COVID-19 left the country with a $350B+ deficits after four years of 10-digit deficits. Such green programs will push the deficits even higher, which will led to harsh austerity down the road as was the the case under the Chretien Liberals in the early 1990s. Considering that the Liberals have knee-capped the energy sector due to their magical thinking, a significant portion of the GDP (nearly 10%) will be gone and "renewables" will not cover that gap, social spending will inevitably be slashed to service debt payments.
The left wing has always had the tendency to believe that people are property of the state and thus can impose their will unopposed when in power. Honestly, by now I'm simply sitting back and watching the rabble on the west coast and central Canada prattle on about their green fantasies. They are blissfully unaware that it is not so much a green "New Deal"(which did little to alleviate the the Great Depression anyway) as it is a "Great Leap Forward." It will be amusing to see them drive the country off a cliff with living standards following shortly thereafter.
That does not factor in the cost of such a program. COVID-19 left the country with a $350B+ deficits after four years of 10-digit deficits. Such green programs will push the deficits even higher, which will led to harsh austerity down the road as was the the case under the Chretien Liberals in the early 1990s. Considering that the Liberals have knee-capped the energy sector due to their magical thinking, a significant portion of the GDP (nearly 10%) will be gone and "renewables" will not cover that gap, social spending will inevitably be slashed to service debt payments.
The left wing has always had the tendency to believe that people are property of the state and thus can impose their will unopposed when in power. Honestly, by now I'm simply sitting back and watching the rabble on the west coast and central Canada prattle on about their green fantasies. They are blissfully unaware that it is not so much a green "New Deal"(which did little to alleviate the the Great Depression anyway) as it is a "Great Leap Forward." It will be amusing to see them drive the country off a cliff with living standards following shortly thereafter.
Speculative at best, you have no idea what green proposals (if any) ate being worked not doyou have any idea what is possible. Pointing to past limited programs in no way informs you of what future programs might offer. For example just because past EV incentives only benefited the rich due to low subsidies, future programs with ambitious goals might offer huge subsidies and exclude the rich.
It’s also idiotic to suggest a shift to renewables means recklessly canceling Fossil-fuel powered vehicles and machines that don’t have a suitable green replacement. Nobody has said that. Anything that can be reasonably be replaced with a renewable alternative should be, despite the whining of the oil lobby and the knee-jerk anti-left. Anything that can’t, will remain until suitable alternatives are feasible.