Federal Court won't remove MPs over election robocalls
Newsbot @ Fri May 24, 2013 1:49 pm
Title: Federal Court won't remove MPs over election robocalls
Category: Political
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2013-05-24 08:00:39
Canadian
uwish @ Fri May 24, 2013 1:49 pm
what? you mean it was .....legal.... OMG! 
raydan @ Fri May 24, 2013 2:19 pm
$1:
Judge Richard Mosley didn't annul the election results, but he did find that fraud occurred in the election.
"I am satisfied, however, that the most likely source of the information used to make the misleading calls was the CIMS database maintained and controlled by the [Conservative Party of Canada], accessed for that purpose by a person or persons currently unknown to this court.
"I am satisfied, however, that the most likely source of the information used to make the misleading calls was the CIMS database maintained and controlled by the [Conservative Party of Canada], accessed for that purpose by a person or persons currently unknown to this court.
It wasn't legal... it's just that they can't prove the MPs had any knowledge of what was going on and they can't even say for sure who done it.
redhatmamma @ Fri May 24, 2013 3:12 pm
It’s obvious why they didn’t nullify the results, because as the judge said:
Mosley said he was not making a finding that the Conservative Party, its candidates or the suppliers providing live and automated robocalls were directly involved in "the campaign to mislead voters."
"I am satisfied, however, that the most likely source of the information used to make the misleading calls was the CIMS database maintained and controlled by the [Conservative Party of Canada], accessed for that purpose by a person or persons currently unknown to this court.
"There is no evidence to indicate that the use of the CIMS database in this manner was approved or condoned by the CPC."
“In reaching this conclusion, I make no finding that the Conservative Party of Canada or any CPC candidates or RMG and RackNine Inc., were directly involved in any campaign to mislead voters" - Federal Court Judge Richard Mosley
raydan @ Fri May 24, 2013 3:23 pm
So it's the head not knowing what the tail is doing. 
2Cdo @ Fri May 24, 2013 3:27 pm
raydan raydan:
So it's the head not knowing what the tail is doing.
Or of someone affiliated with another party hacking the database to make the CPC look bad.
Conspiracy theory 101.
raydan @ Fri May 24, 2013 3:36 pm
2Cdo 2Cdo:
raydan raydan:
So it's the head not knowing what the tail is doing.
Or of someone affiliated with another party hacking the database to make the CPC look bad.
Conspiracy theory 101.
At least make it believable... aliens, the North Koreans or solar flares hacked the database.
2Cdo @ Fri May 24, 2013 3:38 pm
raydan raydan:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
raydan raydan:
So it's the head not knowing what the tail is doing.
Or of someone affiliated with another party hacking the database to make the CPC look bad.
Conspiracy theory 101.
At least make it believable... aliens, the North Koreans or solar flares hacked the database.
North Koreans?
next thing you'll be telling me is they have the capability to invade North America. 
Centre @ Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:17 am
This should take care of any future court cases popping up.........
If twisted autocracy is not your political cup of tea, please consider signing this petition in protest of the misnamed Fair Elections Act.
As well, please consider making a Call For Democracy to your local M.P..
http://www.canadians.org/election/letter-to-Harper.html
redhatmamma @ Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:26 am
It actually makes some overdue sensible needed changes
So, which ones don't you like and why...
http://www.democraticreform.gc.ca/eng/c ... ctions-act
* Commissioner of Elections Canada is to be independant from Elections Canada to be under public prosecutions office. He/she will be independant of E.C. with own staff and be able to conduct his/her own investigations. This is going along with increased powers to investigators.
* EC commission found 25% irregularities with vouching and many did not have correct address on voter cards. Therefore vouching is to be removed but EC is tasked with greater advertising needed ID requirements.
* 38 recommendations from CEO to be implemented
* Commissioner will have full independence, fixed 7 year term, and in the office of public prosecutors office. All future staff will not have political ties with any party.
* ban on transmitting electoral results lifted (unenforceable anyway)
* Increased customer service including additional electoral officers, another day of early voting, and increased information to voters.
more info here
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/05/el ... s-our-vote
Job well don and Kinglsey who ran the place for 20 years or so gave it an A-
DrCaleb @ Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:20 am
redhatmamma redhatmamma:
So, which ones don't you like and why...
Those are the good parts, but they do nothing to ensure that the robocall scandal won't happen again, and they provide for no penalties should it actually happen again.
People were actually robbed of their constitutional right to vote, and once again the CPC way is to silence the critics. So the head of Elections Canada will not be allowed to tell anyone they lost their rights.
$1:
Election reform bill an affront to democracy, Marc Mayrand says
...
In an interview airing Saturday on CBC Radio's The House, Mayrand said "my reading of the act is that I can no longer speak about democracy in this country."
"I'm not aware of any electoral bodies around the world who can not talk about democracy," Mayrand told host Evan Solomon.
...
Polievre defended the bill, telling the Commons it would give a new independent commissioner "sharper teeth, a longer reach, and a freer hand."
Mayrand said he would have liked to see the bill give the elections watchdog the power to compel witnesses to testify, a problem Elections Canada faced when investigating robocalls made during the last federal election.
. . .
He also would have liked to see the bill give the chief electoral officer the authority to compel political parties and their riding associations to provide Elections Canada with financial documentation to support their financial returns.
"It would make it easier to follow the money in the system."
"Right now we get an overall report stating expenditures of parties during campaigns... we don't have the supporting documents that attest to those expenditures, for example. So it makes it very difficult to carry a complete compliance review of those returns," Mayrand said.
...
In an interview airing Saturday on CBC Radio's The House, Mayrand said "my reading of the act is that I can no longer speak about democracy in this country."
"I'm not aware of any electoral bodies around the world who can not talk about democracy," Mayrand told host Evan Solomon.
...
Polievre defended the bill, telling the Commons it would give a new independent commissioner "sharper teeth, a longer reach, and a freer hand."
Mayrand said he would have liked to see the bill give the elections watchdog the power to compel witnesses to testify, a problem Elections Canada faced when investigating robocalls made during the last federal election.
. . .
He also would have liked to see the bill give the chief electoral officer the authority to compel political parties and their riding associations to provide Elections Canada with financial documentation to support their financial returns.
"It would make it easier to follow the money in the system."
"Right now we get an overall report stating expenditures of parties during campaigns... we don't have the supporting documents that attest to those expenditures, for example. So it makes it very difficult to carry a complete compliance review of those returns," Mayrand said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/electio ... -1.2527635
$1:
Independents could face even tougher battle under new election rules
Few political observers would disagree that independent candidates face an steep uphill electoral battle.
But the Conservative proposal to give parties what would amount to a blank cheque for fundraising between election periods — specifically, making a party's calls, emails and other communications with anyone who has donated $20 within the past five years exempt from campaign spending limits — could make it even more difficult for those not aligned with a political party to keep up with the pack while on the hustings.
In an interview with host Evan Solomon on CBC Radio's The House, Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand warned that such an exemption could raise questions about ensuring a "fair, level playing field" for all electoral contenders.
"That would affect what we call in the business the 'get-out-the-vote,' which is becoming increasingly a significant expenditure for campaign," he told The House.
"We estimate ... based on what we can figure out from the returns we received, that maybe 20, 25 per cent of the total expenditure goes to 'get-out-the-vote' process.
"If I understand the provision correctly, that means that over and above the five per cent (campaign spending increase) mentioned earlier, a party could spend about 20 per cent more as long as it's linked to fundraising," Mayrand said.
That, in turn, could create a built-in advantage for existing parties and incumbent candidates.
"A new party coming in, new candidates coming in would not likely have any contributors from the past, so immediately, they face a gap of not only the spending limit, but 20 per cent more," he said.
Few political observers would disagree that independent candidates face an steep uphill electoral battle.
But the Conservative proposal to give parties what would amount to a blank cheque for fundraising between election periods — specifically, making a party's calls, emails and other communications with anyone who has donated $20 within the past five years exempt from campaign spending limits — could make it even more difficult for those not aligned with a political party to keep up with the pack while on the hustings.
In an interview with host Evan Solomon on CBC Radio's The House, Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand warned that such an exemption could raise questions about ensuring a "fair, level playing field" for all electoral contenders.
"That would affect what we call in the business the 'get-out-the-vote,' which is becoming increasingly a significant expenditure for campaign," he told The House.
"We estimate ... based on what we can figure out from the returns we received, that maybe 20, 25 per cent of the total expenditure goes to 'get-out-the-vote' process.
"If I understand the provision correctly, that means that over and above the five per cent (campaign spending increase) mentioned earlier, a party could spend about 20 per cent more as long as it's linked to fundraising," Mayrand said.
That, in turn, could create a built-in advantage for existing parties and incumbent candidates.
"A new party coming in, new candidates coming in would not likely have any contributors from the past, so immediately, they face a gap of not only the spending limit, but 20 per cent more," he said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/indepen ... -1.2530748
There are lots of links like this. Basically, the CPC has hobbled Elections Canada, and made it easier for them to lie, buy and cheat their way back into a majority.
andyt @ Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:40 am
Yeah, but look at your source. We all know the CBC is biased and will do anything to try to discredit the CPC. The CPC is the victim here. Some nefarious other party, who think they are the natural governing party, obviously hacked into the CPC database and made calls that would benefit the CPC in the election, the devious bastards. And they managed to set up that poor guy, what's his name, who didn't even have access to the database to take the fall.
Anyway, the Liberals and NDP do it too, so why worry.
BartSimpson @ Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:32 am
What's kind of funny here is that I have access to an automated dialing system and could easily send calls to every phone line in Canada on behalf of a Liberal or the NDP...just to f*ck with them.
Maybe I will.
DrCaleb @ Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:46 am
andyt andyt:
Yeah, but look at your source.
Yea, thanks JJ.
Ad hominem circumstantial.If any other news organization had interviews with the head of Elections Canada, I'd link to them. Just because they are the only source for a story doesn't mean they are biased.
andyt @ Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:55 am
Yes it does. We know from this forum that the CBC is a Lieberal left wing plot to discredit the CPC. We also know from this forum that attacking the source is deemed a valid argument, doesn't matter if the actual information is correct.
Actually I read about this legislation in both the Vancouver Sun and Globe and Mail (other well known left wing institutions) and read analysis similar to what you posted.
The paranoia of the CPC knows no bounds to charge that the head of the Electoral Commission is on a witch hunt against them because he investigated the robocalls charges. But that kind of stuff goes over well with their base. Likely some on this forum believe it as well.