Gov. Gen. climbs down from 'head of state' debate
Newsbot @ Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:26 pm
Title: Gov. Gen. climbs down from 'head of state' debate
Category: Misc CDN
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2009-10-20 19:23:40
Canadian
gonavy47 @ Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:26 pm
GG should climb down period.
Guy_Fawkes @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:06 am
Why?
gonavy47 @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:33 am
She over-stepped her authority, or allowed this incident to happen. She did not control her staff.
Guy_Fawkes @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:10 am
So because of this one small incident all the other good things she has done should be forgotten?
Akhenaten @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:22 am
I'm glad we live is such times that this is considered a big point of contention.
Truth is they're both right. She's not the head of state. Consider that we really never involve our actual head of state in any of the matters to be determined by our head of state and instead defer them all to the GG means she is 'defacto' the head of state.
Let's move on.
EyeBrock @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:33 am
It's in the language used Akhenaten.
De facto means 'in fact' (from the Middle English) and is derived the Latin 'of fact'.
Using that kind of language was ill advised and it shows a lack of understanding or respect for the position and our heritage, whether you agree with the monarchy or not.
Maybe the French usage of ‘de facto’ has a different meaning but in English it means she assumed the role of head of state, which she clearly is not.
This attitude and the resistance she and her staff showed to changing her ‘de facto’ stance was very telling and her esteem has dropped substantially out of this incident.
raydan @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:09 am
Nope, same meaning in French.
Very similar to the expression "for all intents and purposes".
Used to designated a "fact" that is not officially (or legally) established.
EyeBrock @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:11 am
Thanks for that ray!
Then she and her staff have no excuse. Bad use of language.
Akhenaten @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:22 am
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
It's in the language used Akhenaten.
De facto means 'in fact' (from the Middle English) and is derived the Latin 'of fact'.
Using that kind of language was ill advised and it shows a lack of understanding or respect for the position and our heritage, whether you agree with the monarchy or not.
Maybe the French usage of ‘de facto’ has a different meaning but in English it means she assumed the role of head of state, which she clearly is not.
This attitude and the resistance she and her staff showed to changing her ‘de facto’ stance was very telling and her esteem has dropped substantially out of this incident.
De facto means 'in fact' (from the Middle English) and is derived the Latin 'of fact'.
Using that kind of language was ill advised and it shows a lack of understanding or respect for the position and our heritage, whether you agree with the monarchy or not.
Maybe the French usage of ‘de facto’ has a different meaning but in English it means she assumed the role of head of state, which she clearly is not.
This attitude and the resistance she and her staff showed to changing her ‘de facto’ stance was very telling and her esteem has dropped substantially out of this incident.
Oh I know what it means. It's used when the reality does not equate to the name. If she is making every decision that the 'real' head of state is supposed to make and the 'real' head of state is never even informed of the decisions in question then the reality is she 'equals' the head of state.
I am comfortable with the juxtoposition that she is NOT head of state however. This poses no logical problems for me. To me it wasn't even the language of using 'de facto' that got her into trouble, that in itself is a caveat to whatever you're about to claim. It was the original claim that she 'is the head of state', stop, full statement finished, that got her into trouble. She should've corrected herself immediately. But I don't think anyone can or is arguing that for all practical purposes she performs all the duties of the head of state.
$1:
Very similar to the expression "for all intents and purposes".
Exactly. That's hard to argue with.
EyeBrock @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:27 am
Akh, she is supposed to represent the Queen of Canada in Canada.
Not be the de facto anything. She over stepped her authority. The GG of all people should be aware of these things.
Akhenaten @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:36 am
I don't know why we're arguing Eyebrock.
$1:
She over stepped her authority.
Only by making an erronius definition Eyebrock...absolutely everything else that is supposedly the 'Queens' authority actually falls under her athority. Can anyone think of any issue in our history where we actually deferred any of these responsibilities that are supposed to be the Queens responsibilities, to the Queen?
I can't. That's where there word 'de facto' comes in. It's perfectly apt. Calling herself the head of state was wrong. Pointing out the reality that she is 'de facto' the head of state is 100% correct...and apparently falls under the dubious category of, "It might be true but you shouldn't say it.".
EyeBrock @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:24 am
It show's to me that she has no respect for our heritage and constitution.
If it needs to be changed, let's change it.
But until then the GG should stick to the plot and do her bloody job.
Akhenaten @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:30 am
$1:
But until then the GG should stick to the plot and do her bloody job.
Absolutely. Quiet and outta the way is the way a GG should be.
EyeBrock @ Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:33 am
Agreed.