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I live in North Bay.

Be prepared for significantly higher energy costs for your winter heating.

   

First, you need to understand how the system works. A powerplant does not fire up its generators when you walk into the kitchen and flip on the light switch. The electicity you are using is already bought from electricity generators in advance through the IESO and OPA, in anticipation of your demand. Bids to supply electricity come in and prices being set every five minutes. If that projected demand does not materialize, the energy has to go somewehre, hence it is sold or even 'given away' to other grids or jurisdictions even though the generator has been paid for it. Conversely, when demand is greater than anticipated, electicity must be bought on the spot market at very high prices that are not refelcted on your bill. The hydro bill you pay is a cost-recovery system. The true costs electricity are not fully reflected in most user's bills since costs are recovered from customers on the basis of their average consumption. Even for residents with smart meters and time-of-use billing, the peak period price charged to the customer is a preset rate and does not vary every 5 minutes.

On an annual basis approximately 7.5% of Ontario’s electricity output is lost before it reaches electricity consumers. However, during a year’s peak demand hours, at least 16.1% of our electricity output is lost by the electricity grid system before it reaches the consumers. This is electricity that is purchased from the generator but not billed to rate-payers.

The cost per kWh of meeting peak day demands is very high since the electricity generation, transmission and distribution capacity that is built to meet peak day demands is idle for 99% of the year or more.

According to the OPA, the actual cost of meeting electricity demand during the top demand hours of the year is up to $1.64 per kWh, or approximately 16 times the residential price of electricity. Even with time-of-use billing, the rates are pre-set and are not adjusted to reflect the full cost.

   

Wow, my electrical bills are a bargain.

I did not know that.

   

Jonny_C yea I remember... Seeing as my "dream property" involves no nieghbours and out building, it's all techno colour right now. There is a station down here charging 1.10/lt I would miss that more than anything else down here. Sure wouldn't miss the pretend winter.


BeaverFrever yea mean it's not magic. I know there is a lot more to getting power than flipping the switch. I still would like to know if my "retirement fee" is actually going to the "stranded debt", has there been an audit of the debt. What will the big picture cost above the fees already paid for the Oakville Mississauga mess. Will it add to my Hydro bill. What is the plan for the future, it seems to change weekly. But the bigest thing I would like to know is WTF the nobs in Queen's Park think they are doing?!? Do they actually think. I fugure that if they respond it will be with lots of flower bull shit and very short on facts. I also think the nicest letter will come from the NDP and that's sad

   

Would it really help you to sleep better at night knowing that the whopping six dollars per month that you contribute gets directly put towards $27B or so in hydro debt?

   

Ontraio Hydro's debt is managed by the Ontario Electricity Financial Corporation (created as a successor entity to Ontario Hydro when it was broken up) and the Debt retirement Charge is paid directly to the unfunded liability, not to the Province's general revenues.




Links to OEFC's website, as well as audited financial reports are here:

http://www.oefc.on.ca/debtmanage.html

I believe this is a taxpayer expense, not a rate-payer expense.

   

That's kind of a half-truth. The debt retirement charge goes to OEFC, but the OEFC has other sources of revenue and spending. While the charge doesn't go into the Province's general revenues, it does go into the OEFC's general revenues.

   

I don't know who sends you your hydro bill, but Hydro One bills its users for line losses. Whatever I consume is multiplied by 1.085. I believe this changes based on your classification (medium density, high density, rural, etc)

   

Death by a thousand cuts is still death.

We constantly pay for mistakes (sometimes honest, sometimes willful), misappropriations, feather-bedding, selfish ambition, etc., on the part of politicians and bureaucrats.

Every little bit adds up, sometimes to a large, intractable problem. Ontario Hydro ("Hydro One", if that makes any one feel better) is such a problem.

   

The hole thing just ticks me off. No I don't think they will answer cause I'm just on the poor smucks paying for them and all their perks. No it will not change how I sleep.

But dammit I'm working hard to balance my budget and save for my dream while taking care of my family. I could have kicked the boy and his girlfriend to the curb, was infact incuraged to do so. You will note they are here and not on the welfare rolls. And then you read about our government. Fucking us over on all levels. Paying unsuported claims paying fines they didn't have to. I'm just very very tired of it!!

And does it mater how we are going to pay for all the messes cause we will pay for all these messes as we are still paying for past messes.

I will read the audit later...

   

The only problem with hydro in Ontario is that Ontarians don't pay anywhere close to the actual cost of the service. People bitch, bitch, bitch about their electricity bills but they don't realize that it's the best bargain in their entire lives. We're paying not even a tenth of what we should be paying. How is that anything to be upset about?

You may be getting fucked over in your life, but it ain't on electricity. If anything, you're fucking over future Ontarians with the cushy subsidy you're getting on your energy use.

   

You're asserting that hydro prices should be in excess of $1 per kilowatt hour?

You're an economist, I'm sure you know full well what would happen if that were the case.

How many different ways can you say disaster?

   

Not "should be", but "are". The government is paying the difference between the $1 cost and the $0.10 you're paying.


It already IS the case. We're already paying the full $1...$0.10 on our hydro bills and $0.90 in taxes/deficits/debt/interest.


There'd certainly be a period of adjustment if we allowed market forces to determine pricing, but in the long run, it'd be better for everyone if we did.

   

Even if the provincial government were to stop collecting taxes from my middle class income entirely, I still wouldn't be able to afford $3000 a month hydro, neither could most people.



Period of adjustment? During which private employers will flee this province in droves for more affordable jurisdictions, and those lucky enough to still have work have to live and work by candlelight because they can't afford to turn the lights on?

I don't see where it gets better.

   

This is only a partial correct, as it corrects for quantity, not price. So if you used 1kwh of electricity, they bill you for 1.085 kwh according to the published rates. The point in my post is that during peak hours:
1) the amount of energy lost is higher, but you are still only charged the fixed lost rate
2) the cost of the energy that was lost was higher, but you are still only charged at the fixed price rate.

In sum, the costs associated with delivering electricity to your door fluctuate wildly and are bought wholesale in short-term markets, yet what you are billed is a fixed rate. The cost to provide the elecricity you used over the past hour probably changed every 5 minutes, yet retail prices in Ontario are fixed for 6-month periods.

   

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