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the Americans hadn't gotten bogged down in the Iraqi quagmire?2 million plus iraqs have left iraq because they don't care enough about Iraq to stay and do something about the problems there. Iraqs would rather see America bogged down and dying than to stand up for for what? freedom, democracy or just another brutal dictator? Maybe those 2 million plus Iraqs know something bush doesn't know like there is nothing there worth dying for! Lots of American people feel this way about the involvement in Iraq.Economics.People in Canada are dying from lack of Economics.I see children on the street with lack of proper attire in the cold winter months,I hear Families in Canada weeping and living in tents in the Canadian Winters,in Ottawa,Ontario.Hopelessness and Homeless.
The intelligence level is Not there in any war.I as a tax payer would rather have my taxes go towards helping the people in Canada.If the "war" in any country with Canada's involvement is to be "won" we need more intelligence and 110%.You would have to get Every Canadian to want to give it ALL to do that.I do Not choose to.There will Never be an end to Terrorism,it lives Every Where.Where there is Ignorance there is Terrorism.Using your Brain and not the Brawn makes more sense.

   

Yeah give me the big red button and we'll see.

   

Come on...you're honestly comparing present Canadian society to Afghanistan under the Taliban?!?!? Please...a little perspective might be warranted as this is hardly analogous.

I understand your isolationalist impulse, but some people have it far worse than Canadians. Canada has surplus financial resources and while things may not meet everyone's Utopian standards this nation is hardly facing a humanitarian crisis, basic healthcare disaster, human rights violations or exporting fanatical terrorism that results in the deaths of thousands of innocent victims.

Again, if this kind of attitude held any true influence, then 1914 would've happened, Poland would still be Nazi, Korea would be an unified Communist state, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia would be part of the greater Iraq and genocide would still be rampant in the Balkans. I'm glad other heads prevaied.

   

Maybe if someone could explain to me exactly what "the mission" in Afghanistan is, I could make an informed decision to support it or not. As it stands, it appears to me we're over there spinning the tires.

Are we trying to kill all the terrorists? Impossible. Dispel the Taliban? Well, we did that, but they managed to eek their way back in, due to the fact that much of the country still supports them. Is it to prop up a Western friendly government? Kind of hard to do when we are associated with the US. So what exactly is the mission?

Sure, Afghanistan is a human rights jackpot that necessitates help from the wealthier countries of the world. But is/was military action the best channel to that end? I don't know about that.

   

Here's the mission

http://www.mdn.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1703

If you believe that "talking" "conversing" or taking the standard Western diplomacy route with the Taliban was a realistic option than you may need to brush up on the basic political science and history as it's been proven (overwhelmingly so) that some "regimes" don't respect anything other than military force (just look at the Munich Pact on that one). Sometimes military operations are a political necessity.

   

That's an interesting link, though much of it seems to be broad, military friendly talking points (complete with boldface of the "key words"). Of special interest to myself:



It just doesn't seem that I hear much in the way of progress on the non-military front.

I was never an advocate of negotiating with the Taliban. I suppose I find it odd that after 6 years (and an apparent ousting in December of 2001) we're still fighting them.

   

In Simple terms we need More Intelligence which is not happening.More money and all for what? To get rid of the Taliban which the good old USA helped create? Not Canada's problems.We need to care for Our people First.Deal with our own agenda here in CanadaFirst.Live and Let Live.How many of the Afganistan people want us there? They are looking at us like we are the intruders,and want their "backyard " back to do as they please.How many Americans are on this site? Seems as though it is more American then Canadian policies being "shoved" down out throats.

   

This has already been addressed - repeating the same rhetoric doesn't grant it more legitimacy.

   

I imagine this force will never be completely defeated. Much like organised crime that is found in North America. However if we let it run wild and chose to do absolutely nothing to deter it or try and reduce it then our society as a whole would be far worse off. Similarly Afghanistan is a war torn country that has been largely left on its own and pretty well abandoned by the world so that is why we have seen the rise of tyrants and drug lords that effectively controlled the country. They still do in many parts of it. So if we chose to do nothing and if the world decided to leave this place once again you will only see the further rise of these people we are trying to remove from influence.

So the defence of Afghanistan is critical for this country to actually progress and become a stable functioning society. Without any military force we would be left defenceless and would have no means to protect the villages and people across this country from those who wish to oppress and control them. So this mission that people seem not to understand is a very simple one. We are there to protect people from oppression, we are there to help and encourage a more united and progressively democratic country, and we are there to maintain the rights of mankind. We are also there to see to it that the people who wish to spread their hate and plot against our own country will have a less of a safe haven to perpetrate and organise against us. In even more simplistic terms we are there to defend the people of Afghanistan and in the process defend our own country against forces in the region that wish to destroy us.

If you do not want our country to defend itself or help other countries do the same or even develop into a better society then well that really says a lot about your character. If you ask me yes we should defend our country and yes we should help others do the same especially against people that when compared to Robert Pickton they make him appear as if he were a saint.

   

Where are they portraying Robert Pickton as a saint? If you feel we should be in Afganistan then why is the intelligence there so slack? Why are the Allies so scattered? Are you willing to give half your paycheque towards this cause And your life? Your children and Family to go fight in Afganistan?
Then when the USA attacks another country are you and everyone you love willing to go and fight there too? At this point all your Pay Cheque?Our own country will be torn apart because all of the terrorist will be here as well..and it is a never ending story.If you can go over there and fight along with everyone else and can give away all your wealth then I will look at your character with less antagonism then I do

   

...And it has nothing to do with Canada either.

Perhaps some here aren't giving the Quebecers enough credit for their reasons for not wanting this war... and instead choose the ever-so-convenient "bash on Quebec" bullshit. Perhaps, they hold these views having a more educated perspective that comes from having a more complete understanding of these Bush-led ME invasions and occupations?

I have more respect for the people of Quebec who hold these anti-war views, than for the chickenshit keyboard warriors who are too dumb or lazy to understand what these wars are really about... and who cheer on the troops to their graves like the great "patriots" they think they are. The real cowards are those that choose a path of ignorance, and allow themselves to be manipulted into believing lies and bullshit... pumped through the media to our Canadian "joe-six-packs" who haven't the higher level thinking to understand anything other than...

Osama bad... grunt... terrorists bad... must fight war... kill enemy... grunt...

Afghanistan is not our problem... wasn't before 911... isn't now.

The "war on terror" is a fraud... a hoax... nothing more. Canadians need to wake up... and maybe start listening to Quebec for a change.

They are right about this issue.

   

You're far more polite with this loon then I would be. Adahen ranks up there with Calgary123 and all the other no-minds. They honestly believe if you say anything often enough it becomes true, regardless of whether there is any truth to their verbal diarrhea!

   

So why did we feel it so important to help Afghanistan over any of the other countries that face the same problems?



I don't think there were many Afghanis plotting against Canada prior to us maintaining a military presence there.



Wait a minute. You claim that these nameless, faceless "people" make a person soon to be convicted of 26 cold blooded murders look like a Saint, and you question my character? What a joke.

   

I really don't understand why people have to start insulting others intelligence on this site.I refuse to believe in this stupid war which we will never win.We have been giving money to Afganistan for 6 years at least and have promised 1 billion by 3 years time if not less.Harper stated we never had a colony in Africa Only the Europeans did,so why is Africa still Canada's problem? I refuse to kill my self for the people in foreign lands and I resent giving my families hard earned taxes towards a never ending war.I would prefer to give to our own country which is Canada and help the people here.

   

GUYS:

Could we get back the main topic of this thread, please ?

Support for the Canadian Army in Quebec has ALLWAYS been low, going all the way back to 1914.

With the exception of 3 infantry battalions( about 4,00 men ) from Quebec, the Canadian Expeditionary Force was very much an "Anglo-Saxon " force, with a few recent immigrants from Galacia and Poland and the Ukraine thrown in for flavouring. More than 60 percent of the CEF was born in the UK, not Canada. and in many cases, the men had previously served in the Imperial Army, before immigrating to Canada.

During WW2, the number of men who enlisted, from Quebec, was higher, BUT they were English speaking Quebecers, who joined units that were Quebec based but were English langauge only units.

The RCAF and the RCN had NO French speaking units , at all during WW2. This was to perevent " langauge problems on the radio". Only a few infantry units operated in French, notably the Van Doos, and the Maisoneuve Regiment, and the Sherbrooke Fusilers.

When national conscription was made into law, many Quebecers went "underground " and changed their names, and or went to the USA. They were happy to make the big money working in "war plants " but they didn't want to risk being killed in action overseas.

Today, in Quebec, the number of Royal Canadian Legion branches is the smallest in Canada, and the Province of Quebec has the FEWEST number of war memorials in all of Canada. To me that says it all.

I find it very interesting that the media keeps on reffering to the Royal 22nd as " Quebec soldiers " while we all know that their shoulder flashes say " CANADA " on them, not " QUEBEC".

They do not owe allegiance to Quebec, but to Canada. Quebec dosen't pay their wages nor do they have any say in their deployment, just as other Provinces have no say on where the PPCLI or the RCR, or RCHA are sent.

Quebec imagines it;s self a "Nation" when in fact it is simply one of 10 Provinces. No more , no less.

BTW, go get em......... Van Doos. Kick Timmie the Taliban's ass around the block.

Jim B Toronto.

   

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