Income gap between rich and poor may harm all
andyt @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:44 am
http://www.straight.com/article-364394/vancouver/income-gap-may-harm-all
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British epidemiologist Richard Wilkinson offers a compelling reason why countries like Canada should strive to bridge the gap between rich and poor.
According to the coauthor of the celebrated 2009 book The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better, people live longer, healthier, and happier lives in more egalitarian societies.
“It’s the gap that matters,” Wilkinson told the audience at a well-attended forum held December 14 at the Carnegie Community Centre in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside.
The cofounder of the Equality Trust, a U.K.–based advocacy group, also stated that nations with less pronounced income stratification fare better in many health and social measures. In addition to residents having longer life expectancies and better physical and mental well-being, these societies have fewer social problems such as high infant mortality rates, teenage births, alcohol and drug addiction, homicides, and high rates of imprisonment.
A chart in Wilkinson’s book shows that the U.S. has the greatest income inequality as well as the worst index of health and social problems among 21 developed countries. Japan has the best record; Canada comes 12th.
In an interview before he delivered his talk, Wilkinson said that although inequality affects the poor more than the rich, “even the better-off do better in more equal societies”.
“They might live a little bit longer, their children will do better in school, they’ll be less likely to be victims of violence,” Wilkinson told the Georgia Straight. “Why it is is because inequality increases status competition, status insecurity, and it’s a sort of competition of each against all, whereas in a more equal society, there’s more reciprocity and cooperation. Involvement in community life is stronger in more equal societies. People trust each other more.”
According to the coauthor of the celebrated 2009 book The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better, people live longer, healthier, and happier lives in more egalitarian societies.
“It’s the gap that matters,” Wilkinson told the audience at a well-attended forum held December 14 at the Carnegie Community Centre in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside.
The cofounder of the Equality Trust, a U.K.–based advocacy group, also stated that nations with less pronounced income stratification fare better in many health and social measures. In addition to residents having longer life expectancies and better physical and mental well-being, these societies have fewer social problems such as high infant mortality rates, teenage births, alcohol and drug addiction, homicides, and high rates of imprisonment.
A chart in Wilkinson’s book shows that the U.S. has the greatest income inequality as well as the worst index of health and social problems among 21 developed countries. Japan has the best record; Canada comes 12th.
In an interview before he delivered his talk, Wilkinson said that although inequality affects the poor more than the rich, “even the better-off do better in more equal societies”.
“They might live a little bit longer, their children will do better in school, they’ll be less likely to be victims of violence,” Wilkinson told the Georgia Straight. “Why it is is because inequality increases status competition, status insecurity, and it’s a sort of competition of each against all, whereas in a more equal society, there’s more reciprocity and cooperation. Involvement in community life is stronger in more equal societies. People trust each other more.”
andyt @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:50 am
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High health-care costs directly linked to poverty, report says
http://www.healthzone.ca/health/newsfeatures/article/907566--high-health-care-costs-directly-linked-to-poverty-report-says
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Some 20 per cent of Canada’s spiralling health-care costs can be directly attributed to low income and education levels, a new report says.
And reducing the innate health risks that poverty carries requires lifting the socioeconomic status of the country’s poorest people, according to a Health Council of Canada report.
“There is a direct correlation (between) low incomes, low socioeconomic status and health,” council head John Abbott says.
“And when you look at the pressures on the health-care system, who is using the system, it tends to be that very same group.
And reducing the innate health risks that poverty carries requires lifting the socioeconomic status of the country’s poorest people, according to a Health Council of Canada report.
“There is a direct correlation (between) low incomes, low socioeconomic status and health,” council head John Abbott says.
“And when you look at the pressures on the health-care system, who is using the system, it tends to be that very same group.
$1:
He says he does not know if the health costs associated with poverty would simply be counterbalanced by new financing for social equalization programs.
Yet while that “math can be done,” the alleviation of suffering the suggested strategy would produce would justify it, he says.
Yet while that “math can be done,” the alleviation of suffering the suggested strategy would produce would justify it, he says.
Public_Domain @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:00 am
andyt @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:16 am
Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
"Even the better-off do better in more equal societies"
That's always been my point. Greater equality builds a more peaceful, co-operative society. It's just a nicer place to live. Leaving your gated community only in your car, and only to go to the few places you feel safe is going to have a negative effect on those people, even if they are doing materially well.
In Buddhism it's called the realm of the jealous gods, and somebody wrote a little song about it:
Then there's this:
and finally this:
Public_Domain @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:19 am
andyt @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:08 am
Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Awesome songs andy... Especially the last one!
They're from the movie Oh! Lucky Man. You may not like it because it's a Buddhist allegory, but it also has a lot to say about social justice.
Canadian_Mind @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:57 am
Is this the only issue you care about Andy? This forum hasn't gone a week without the rich-poor "income gap" coming up since you joined, and probably wont until the day everyone is making the same salary, regardless of whether they are doctors or burger-flippers at McDonalds. 
andyt @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:13 am
Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
Is this the only issue you care about Andy? This forum hasn't gone a week without the rich-poor "income gap" coming up since you joined, and probably wont until the day everyone is making the same salary, regardless of whether they are doctors or burger-flippers at McDonalds.
Nope, I join the discussion on all sorts of topics, even post the odd one. But yes, this issue it dear to my heart.
The last part of your post is just reductio ad absurdum.
DrCaleb @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:20 pm
andyt andyt:
Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Awesome songs andy... Especially the last one!
They're from the movie Oh! Lucky Man. You may not like it because it's a Buddhist allegory, but it also has a lot to say about social justice.
The best lessons on social justice I have found, are in books written by The Dali Llama.
Can't comment on your vids though, not permitted at work.
andyt @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:25 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
andyt andyt:
Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Awesome songs andy... Especially the last one!
They're from the movie Oh! Lucky Man. You may not like it because it's a Buddhist allegory, but it also has a lot to say about social justice.
The best lessons on social justice I have found, are in books written by The Dali Llama.
Can't comment on your vids though, not permitted at work.
They're just songs from the movie Oh! Lucky Man, which I see as a Buddhist allegory.
Dunno about the DL - I got into this with some friends, looked it up a bit. It's hard to tell what's Chinese propaganda or more truthyness, but pre-invasion Tibet sounds like they had their own human rights problems, and the majority of the population of this poor country were serfs, while a few nobles and Lamas lived it up. OTOH, the DL has said that the Chinese invasion was a good thing in the sense that it pulled Tibet into the modern age (That and it improved the cuisine). So maybe he's also advanced his thinking from old Tibetan ways.
ASLplease @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:27 pm
I dont get it, if there was no income gap between the rich and the poor then how would tell the difference between lawyer and theif? hard worker and bum? happy and sad?
andyt @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:29 pm
ASLplease ASLplease:
I dont get it, if there was no income gap between the rich and the poor then how would tell the difference between lawyer and theif? hard worker and bum? happy and sad?
Who has argued for no income diff at all? And actually the theives are doing very well thank you. Of course so are the lawyers, when they're not one and the same.
As for happy and sad, you now want to reward people based on their mood states?
ASLplease @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:33 pm
Andy, as part of the blue collar clan, i've taken an oath not to become rich. I do this by working hard and only getting paid for my time.
andyt @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:39 pm
ASLplease ASLplease:
Andy, as part of the blue collar clan, i've taken an oath not to become rich. I do this by working hard and only getting paid for my time.
And it's exactly guys like you that are in the most danger of becoming poor. The recession has kicked the shit out of men's blue collar jobs, as has moving manufacturing to Asia. Maybe you can't see it coming, maybe you never will before you die, but your kids certainly will.
ASLplease @ Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:46 pm
yep, I'm probably screwed for ever, but I'm advising my son to learn chinese. I think a white guy with a university education that speaks chinese will have good job prospects in 20 years from now.
they rest of us better learn to become self employed. if Im self employed, then I earn based on my product or service instead of the going salary in the neighborhood.