Liberals made 'huge mistake' in refusal to apologize
Newsbot @ Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:02 pm
<strong>Title: </strong> <a href="/link.php?id=31337" target="_blank">Liberals made 'huge mistake' in refusal to apologize</a> (click to view)
<strong>Category:</strong> <a href="/news/topic/1-political" target="_blank">Political</a>
<strong>Posted By: </strong> <a href="/modules.php?name=Your_Account&op=userinfo&username=ridenrain" target="_blank">ridenrain</a>
<strong>Date: </strong> 2008-03-17 06:15:15
<strong>Canadian</strong>
stemmer @ Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:02 pm
Way to go Mr Harper... It's time to put the honesty back into Canadian politics ...
Illusion-of-Form @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:40 pm
I find it amazing how Liberal MP Bryon Wilfert calls it "asking questions" when they are making the comments as a statement of fact. Do they not realize how this discredits them?
ryan29 @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:55 pm
yeah i'm not sure what the liberals are thinking , they made all these accusations without being able to prove anything wrong or illegal happened .it all sounded juicy to some but it was along way from solid proof .
dino_bobba_renno @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:13 pm
Illusion-of-Form Illusion-of-Form:
I find it amazing how Liberal MP Bryon Wilfert calls it "asking questions" when they are making the comments as a statement of fact. Do they not realize how this discredits them?
I'd have to agree with you there. What they posted is far from a question. Here's the actual article.
$1:
Harper Knew of Conservative Bribery
February 29, 2008
Canadians were shocked to hear Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s admission that he knew members of the Conservative Party tried to bribe former British Columbia MP Chuck Cadman in exchange for his vote, the Liberal Opposition said today.
“In an interview, Mr. Harper was asked explicitly about the insurance offer,” said Liberal House Leader Ralph Goodale during Question Period in the House of Commons. “He did not deny it. In fact, he confirmed an offer was made. He told Conservative officials to ‘make the case’ to Mr. Cadman.
“Did the Prime Minister know that making such an offer would be an indictable offense under the criminal code?”
Mr. Goodale was referring to a taped conversation between journalist Tom Zytaruk and Stephen Harper in 2005, revealing that Mr. Harper was aware that Conservative officials tried to bribe the terminally ill MP in exchange for his vote.
“Donna Cadman has repeatedly confirmed that Conservatives offered her husband life insurance benefits to buy his vote” said Mr. Goodale. “The government has attacked the word of Mrs. Cadman, but her story is consistent. It's confirmed by her daughter and by the Prime Minister's own words.”
Mr. Goodale pointed out that under the existing Parliamentary life insurance plan, MPs who no longer sit in Parliament are able to keep their insurance policies. However, the premiums go up and the benefits go down.
“Did the Conservatives offer to make up that difference in exchange for Mr. Cadman's vote?” asked Mr. Goodale.
The Liberal Opposition believes it is time for Mr. Harper to stop preaching accountability and start being honest with Canadians by explaining everything he knows about the shocking allegations of illegal and unethical bribery.
February 29, 2008
Canadians were shocked to hear Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s admission that he knew members of the Conservative Party tried to bribe former British Columbia MP Chuck Cadman in exchange for his vote, the Liberal Opposition said today.
“In an interview, Mr. Harper was asked explicitly about the insurance offer,” said Liberal House Leader Ralph Goodale during Question Period in the House of Commons. “He did not deny it. In fact, he confirmed an offer was made. He told Conservative officials to ‘make the case’ to Mr. Cadman.
“Did the Prime Minister know that making such an offer would be an indictable offense under the criminal code?”
Mr. Goodale was referring to a taped conversation between journalist Tom Zytaruk and Stephen Harper in 2005, revealing that Mr. Harper was aware that Conservative officials tried to bribe the terminally ill MP in exchange for his vote.
“Donna Cadman has repeatedly confirmed that Conservatives offered her husband life insurance benefits to buy his vote” said Mr. Goodale. “The government has attacked the word of Mrs. Cadman, but her story is consistent. It's confirmed by her daughter and by the Prime Minister's own words.”
Mr. Goodale pointed out that under the existing Parliamentary life insurance plan, MPs who no longer sit in Parliament are able to keep their insurance policies. However, the premiums go up and the benefits go down.
“Did the Conservatives offer to make up that difference in exchange for Mr. Cadman's vote?” asked Mr. Goodale.
The Liberal Opposition believes it is time for Mr. Harper to stop preaching accountability and start being honest with Canadians by explaining everything he knows about the shocking allegations of illegal and unethical bribery.
Harper has denied from the beginning that there was an insurance offer. The article the Liberals posted is extremely misleading in that implies he admitted to the insurance deal being offered.
grainfedprairieboy @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:33 pm
Harpers lawsuit bothers me greatly. It makes me wonder if there is actually something to the allegations as my personal opinion is that this is no more then a strategy by the Conservatives to wrap the issue in a lawsuit thereby legally exonerating themselves of any further questioning as they will be able to claim its before the courts.'
westmanguy @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:44 pm
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
Harpers lawsuit bothers me greatly. It makes me wonder if there is actually something to the allegations as my personal opinion is that this is no more then a strategy by the Conservatives to wrap the issue in a lawsuit thereby legally exonerating themselves of any further questioning as they will be able to claim its before the courts.'
How would you feel if you were have your character defamed and being accused of being involved in an illegal activity with no proof?
The Liberals went over the line, and now this goes to court.
ridenrain @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:44 pm
The problem is the total lack of proof that lets the Libs keep asking "when are you going to stop beating you're wife" type questions. The NDP and Block chose not to demand an RCMP investigation and even if there was one, the Libs would have dragged it out as long as possible so voters began to associate the lies with the party.
This stupid move by Dion now forces him to come up with the legal proof that dosen't admit, making him look like a fool and bleeding the Liberal party of needy funds that they they are showing to be unable to raise.
I don't like this legal act but I like the slander campaign even less.
fire_i @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:52 pm
Got to agree with GFPB here. Even if this is lies, is now the moment for a lawsuit? Either a minor strategical mistake by the Cons or they really do have something to hide. In that latter case, the lawsuit would probably be a crushing blow to Harper in itself since that'd show him off as not just one that bribes others, but as a hypocrite able to rely on tactics akin to SLAP lawsuits.
On the other hand, if the Libs are indeed pushing forward a false idea, then they're making a major strategical mistake, so as someone who (as could be expected) has no idea of what actually happened, I'd say they're the ones with the biggest chance of getting a beatdown, though it would be nothing compared to what the Cons will get should the whole story turn out to be true (something that prolly wouldn't have been as bad to them had they not went on with that lawsuit).
Time will tell I guess.
ridenrain @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:59 pm
It comes down to proof and there simply is none.
I don't want to rehash this whole thing again but the insurance policy was shot down by insurance experts, the CPC party and the words of Cadman himself.
If there isn't enough proof, Harper cannot "prove" that he is innocent so he might as well demand the Liberals prove he is guilty, and bleed them of their election warchest while he's at it.
grainfedprairieboy @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:10 pm
Don't get me wrong, I sincerely doubt the allegations to be true and it is clear the Liberals are breaking the law as Canada is the only country left which allows politicians this special protection.
But part of opening up accountability in government is taking the opportunity to remove the barriers that essentially protect politicians from attacking each other with libel and slander laws. We know the Liberals never will remove it as they always are scandal plagued.
It is important to remember that libel laws originated as a way to protect the nobility and were turned over the the Star Chamber in the 1600s whose rules of decision making evolved into the libel/slander laws for the public today. But all other countries of British origin have changed the laws to reflect the reality that some things must be said for the public good giving politicians a greater freedom to go after each other then say a couple of businessmen.
But to change these laws we'd have to completely revamp the draconian HRC powers which have seriously eroded our right to freedom of speech and expression over the past 5 years.
I feel the Conservatives are going the wrong way.
ridenrain @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:30 pm
I think we need to make MP's and parties accountable for what they say.
Painting Dion as a weak leader or hinting at a CPC secret agenda is one thing but naming a person and saying that they were guilty of a criminal offence is libel.
Just as the NDP had the opportunity to apologise for publicly accusing a CPC MP for looking at porn in parliament, Dion had the opportunity to retract what he said. He chose to make a point and now he will have the chance to prove his case in a court of law.
Freakinoldguy @ Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:51 pm
I don't know about the rest of you folks, but personally I'm looking forward to the court ordered Liberal Party of Canada Fire Sale to pay off the lawsuit.
I may even put a bid in on that Trudeau statue they wanted to erect. I think it would look pretty good in my backyard and since I can't afford a fire hydrant, it'd make me a hero to the local caninine establishment.
fire_i @ Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:44 am
You've got good points there ridenrain.
dino_bobba_renno @ Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:43 am
fire_i fire_i:
Got to agree with GFPB here. Even if this is lies, is now the moment for a lawsuit? Either a minor strategical mistake by the Cons or they really do have something to hide. In that latter case, the lawsuit would probably be a crushing blow to Harper in itself since that'd show him off as not just one that bribes others, but as a hypocrite able to rely on tactics akin to SLAP lawsuits.
On the other hand, if the Libs are indeed pushing forward a false idea, then they're making a major strategical mistake, so as someone who (as could be expected) has no idea of what actually happened, I'd say they're the ones with the biggest chance of getting a beatdown, though it would be nothing compared to what the Cons will get should the whole story turn out to be true (something that prolly wouldn't have been as bad to them had they not went on with that lawsuit).
Time will tell I guess.
On the other hand, if the Libs are indeed pushing forward a false idea, then they're making a major strategical mistake, so as someone who (as could be expected) has no idea of what actually happened, I'd say they're the ones with the biggest chance of getting a beatdown, though it would be nothing compared to what the Cons will get should the whole story turn out to be true (something that prolly wouldn't have been as bad to them had they not went on with that lawsuit).
Time will tell I guess.
Well in most cases I would agree that you should wait for the all the facts to come out and to be absolved of an accusation before filing a lawsuit but in this case I kind of think Harper is doing the right thing.
The Liberals are posturing to spring a non-confidence vote after the Easter break (or they were until last nights by-election) so it may be wise of Harpers to put a stop to the accusations as soon as possible before an election can be sprung on him. Not to mention that the longer he leaves the accusations to linger about the more people may tend to believe them.
I know for one that I’m growing a little tired of all the mud slinging in commons these days. We have the Mulrony inquiry, Ridenrain mentioned the NDP’s accusations about looking at porn, Cadman affair, and many more nonsense items coming forward when we have far more important issues to address. Maybe this lawsuit will help keep some of the partisan hackery down, I doubt it but it might.