Loblaw's price cut stirs hope of grocer's price war
mikewood86 @ Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:29 pm
Proculation @ Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:37 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
I knew you were going to say that. Ok, so let's say a human and a chicken aren't comparable and that humans are more valuable than chickens. Is that the only thing that matters? Human value =100, so animal value = 0? They feel pain and suffering too, doesn't that mean ANYTHING at all? Not even a little? It's not enough to kill them and eat them, we have torture them now too, just so you can save a couple pennies and Taiwan Sugar Corp can make an extra billion?
What does that mean, that its ok to abuse animals in any circumstance like the kids who beat that moose to death in the other thread? That animals have absolutely no more value whatsoever? That cockfights should be legal and if I want to torture a kitten to death just for kicks on a friday night there is nothing even slightly wrong or immoral about it? Follow me here on this....
I'm sure you think that there is SOME DEGREE immorality in torturing animals, like if you walked past a bunch of kids who were skinning a cat alive just for fun, you'd probably be disgusted and offended and intervene...at least most people would.
If I assume therefore that your postion is that since there is a benefit to YOU of cheaper food, the morality of animal torture commited by big agri-business is irrelevant, then essentially you are allowing your morals to be "bought off" or are being hypocrital.
My point is that if something is wrong, it is wrong whether you benefit from it or not. How can something be less wrong because you profit from it? If you oppose something, put your money where your mouth is and vote with your pocket-book. Supporting something you consider to be otherwise immoral simply because it interferes with your personal benefit is no different whether you're talking about slavery or animal cruelty or anything else. It's tolerating something that you know is otherwise wrong for your own self-interest.
What does that mean, that its ok to abuse animals in any circumstance like the kids who beat that moose to death in the other thread? That animals have absolutely no more value whatsoever? That cockfights should be legal and if I want to torture a kitten to death just for kicks on a friday night there is nothing even slightly wrong or immoral about it? Follow me here on this....
I'm sure you think that there is SOME DEGREE immorality in torturing animals, like if you walked past a bunch of kids who were skinning a cat alive just for fun, you'd probably be disgusted and offended and intervene...at least most people would.
If I assume therefore that your postion is that since there is a benefit to YOU of cheaper food, the morality of animal torture commited by big agri-business is irrelevant, then essentially you are allowing your morals to be "bought off" or are being hypocrital.
My point is that if something is wrong, it is wrong whether you benefit from it or not. How can something be less wrong because you profit from it? If you oppose something, put your money where your mouth is and vote with your pocket-book. Supporting something you consider to be otherwise immoral simply because it interferes with your personal benefit is no different whether you're talking about slavery or animal cruelty or anything else. It's tolerating something that you know is otherwise wrong for your own self-interest.
We are not torturing them. We raise them to eat them. I would never torture or eat a human. I don't care about the chicken, like I don't care growing plants to eat them or cutting grass. It's not about benefit or not, it's about eating good/bad meat and/or plants. Usually when they are slaughtered that's done in a decent way. So I don't care if the chicken was being sung sleeping songs to have better quality of meat. It's a chicken !!
BeaverFever @ Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:09 pm
Yeah but snapping their beaks off so you can cram more of them into a cage and starving them to get one more egg out of them are neither essential to chicken farming and consumption nor are they traditional farming or slaughtering practises. This is just unncessary cruelty brought in to make extra money for corporate agri-business.
And what does "its a chicken!" really mean? I mean what does it really really mean in the human psyche? The kids who tortured that moose said "its just a moose!" and Michael Vick said "they're just dogs!" What does that mean? It means they're something who's pain and suffering is meaningless to you because you have decided to make it meaningless. Saying "its a chicken" doesn't mean that animal won't endure the same excruciating pain and suffering you would if these horrible things were done to you, its just a mental block you have put up in your mind so you don't have to deal with the truth. In reality, its no different a process from the people who said "for heaven sakes, it's just a slave!"
And your claim that they are "usually slaughtered in a decent way" is just another illusion, like saying our policemen are "our city's finest" or that our politicians are our "best and brightest." It's a myth that helps people sleep better at night but is just as likely to be untrue as it is true, if not more so.
Now I'm not a vegetarian, but I do shell out the extra dollar or fifty cents or whatever to get something that didn't spend the last months of its life screaming in absolute terror and unimaginable pain...when I can find it. Alot of the time its hard to tell what you're getting just from the labeling and agri-buisiness lobbies gov't and maneuvers in the marketplace to keep it that way. They don't spend that money for nothing.
Dayseed @ Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:25 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
What does that mean, that its ok to abuse animals in any circumstance like the kids who beat that moose to death in the other thread? That animals have absolutely no more value whatsoever? That cockfights should be legal and if I want to torture a kitten to death just for kicks on a friday night there is nothing even slightly wrong or immoral about it? Follow me here on this....
If I follow you on your tangent, I already know you're going to lead me straight to Turkey Point, Ontario, where they put all of the above and more on their tourism brochures.
BeaverFever @ Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:34 am
Is that supposed to be some kind of rebuttal?
Dayseed @ Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:14 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Is that supposed to be some kind of rebuttal?
No, it's a condemnation of Turkey Point Ontario, where morality, the law and common sense were so fiercely frowned upon, they left permanently. I once saw a jogger running along a beach drinking from a litre of milk there.
DerbyX @ Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:18 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
ridenrain ridenrain:
.. out West, Loblaws buys B.C.'s T&T Supermarket for $225 million.
I'm guessing prices here won't change.
I'm guessing prices here won't change.
Nope, I'm guessing prices will rise. Somebody has to pay that $225 million...
Demand stimulus money to compensate.
BeaverFever @ Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:00 am
LOL!!! That whole Lake Erie north shore is pretty hick! I'm from Niagara, I know the difference.