MLSE wants $10 million from Toronto for BMO Field makeover
QBall @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:47 am
[quote="BeaverFever"]That said, I think the city should INVEST the $10M on the condition of some sort of direct return, such as a cut of the venue's profits./quote]
The city owns the stadium.
Jabberwalker @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:46 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
What a total and complete waste of public funds that are badly needed elsewhere in Toronto. Toronto bears the biggest brunt of immigration to this country and they are saddled with supplying thousands of low cost housing units to those trying to get an anchor in this country ... a Federal responsibility, really. They can't levy income taxes like the Feds and Province can so they are stuck with raising revenues by this-and-that method.
If MLSE has a good product that sells, they don't need a tax give-away. If they don't have that product, they should fix their marketing plan.
If MLSE has a good product that sells, they don't need a tax give-away. If they don't have that product, they should fix their marketing plan.
If Toronto needs money badly to help with other causes, why wouldn't you support an investment of 10 million that will inject far more into the coffers of the City to support those causes?
You're taking 10 million and turning it into 100 million + in economic activity for just 1 major event.
andyt andyt:
Amazing how the right seems to love giving money to business as much as the left. Hell, with Chrysler, the Cons were crying because Chrysler didn't in the end want to take their 500 million.
Nice exaggeration. Nobody was 'crying' over Chrysler opting to fund the plant on their own.
The Argos are going to do all of that?
...not in a month of Sundays.
An NFL team ... MAYBE ... could generate that much action but it's a real long shot.
No, this is a case of a rich, private sector concern with their hand out. Ford is a big football fan and he might even bite at this bait.
OnTheIce @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:20 am
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
The Argos are going to do all of that?
...not in a month of Sundays.
An NFL team ... MAYBE ... could generate that much action but it's a real long shot.
No, this is a case of a rich, private sector concern with their hand out. Ford is a big football fan and he might even bite at this bait.
...not in a month of Sundays.
An NFL team ... MAYBE ... could generate that much action but it's a real long shot.
No, this is a case of a rich, private sector concern with their hand out. Ford is a big football fan and he might even bite at this bait.
The NHL Winter Classic will do that EASILY over 1 weekend.
What you fail to realise also is that the building is owned by the City and MLSE is offering to put in 90 million to upgrade it.
So no, this isn't the case if the rich with their hand out....the rich are offering to put 90 million into a publicly owned facility and are asking for Toronto to come to the table with 8% of the cost of a project on a building they own.
Jabberwalker @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:15 am
The City built Sky Dome and then sold it off for 10 cents on the dollar. I'm not impressed. It's a shitty deal. Knock it down and expand the Convention Centre, instead. THAT would generate revenue. Besides, there are new Pan Am games venues going up. Use those.
OnTheIce @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:43 am
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
The City built Sky Dome and then sold it off for 10 cents on the dollar. I'm not impressed. It's a shitty deal. Knock it down and expand the Convention Centre, instead. THAT would generate revenue. Besides, there are new Pan Am games venues going up. Use those.
Perhaps you need to brush up on your knowledge of the subject before you continue to spout off.
Toronto didn't build Skydome. Skydome was largely a Provincially-run project with corporate money and land and it was sold off by the Provincial NDP government.
It's a great deal for the City to have a private company spend 90 million to fix up your building to drive more money into your City.
bootlegga @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:06 pm
In the whole scheme of professional sports, $10 million is peanuts. Over the course of its life(say another 20 years), I have little doubt that it would easily recoup that investment. One big event like the Winter Classic would probably bring in $10 million all by itself.
Tell you what Toronto - we'll pay for that and you can shell out the $460 million for our new hockey stadium!
BeaverFever @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:03 pm
QBall QBall:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
That said, I think the city should INVEST the $10M on the condition of some sort of direct return, such as a cut of the venue's profits.
The city owns the stadium.
Right you are, not sure if that means City of Toronto gets a fair cut of the profits . For example, I note that MLSE paid the city of Toronto $10M to hold the stadium's naming rights for 20 years, which they then re-sold to BMO for $27M over 10years....seems like quite the middle-man mark-up!
At any rate, my question appears to be a moot point because todays news has this rumour:
$1:
Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment CEO Tim Leiweke says his company will spend $120 million on renovations to BMO Field this summer, the Toronto Sun is reporting.
MLSE recently received unanimous approval from the Exhibition Place board of governors for the expansion of Toronto FC’s home.
Leiweke told the Toronto Sun that the full financial breakdown would involve all of the $120 million that MLSE is contributing as well as $10 million from the municipal, provincial and federal governments.
Leiweke isn’t a fan of taxpayer dollars funding stadiums however, and he’s previously said that the money that the City of Toronto would fork over would be paid back.
“I’m a big believer that the public sector should be worried about transportation, safety and education,” Leiweke told the Sun. “We had no problem with the formula. We wanted to make sure that those who originally funded the stadium are still involved in the stadium.”
MLSE recently received unanimous approval from the Exhibition Place board of governors for the expansion of Toronto FC’s home.
Leiweke told the Toronto Sun that the full financial breakdown would involve all of the $120 million that MLSE is contributing as well as $10 million from the municipal, provincial and federal governments.
Leiweke isn’t a fan of taxpayer dollars funding stadiums however, and he’s previously said that the money that the City of Toronto would fork over would be paid back.
“I’m a big believer that the public sector should be worried about transportation, safety and education,” Leiweke told the Sun. “We had no problem with the formula. We wanted to make sure that those who originally funded the stadium are still involved in the stadium.”
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/report-b ... n-upgrade/
If this turns out to be true, with no catches, fine print, or after-the-fact loan forgiveness from the city, I will be genuinely and pleasantly shocked!
Jabberwalker @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:04 pm
Tell you what Toronto - we'll pay for that and you can shell out the $460 million for our new hockey stadium!
I don't live in Toronto.
If you've got somebody's public money to blow, good on you.
In the grand scheme of things, $10 million will house quite a few poor people. In Toronto, most of those are migrants from somewhere else ... other parts of Canada is one and immigrants are another. Taking care of newcomers is an expense that was down-loaded to the municipal level. This region adds one million people a decade, mostly newcomers.
There are a lot of other issues that need to be dealt with in Toronto. The age of the city is starting to catch up with it. This happened to Montreal some time ago and it will eventually happen to Calgary and Edmonton in the future. there is no magic there that will prevent it. Westerners will become more reluctant to blow $$$ on circuses as well, in time.
OnTheIce @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:12 pm
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
In the grand scheme of things, $10 million will house quite a few poor people. In Toronto, most of those are migrants from somewhere else ... other parts of Canada is one and immigrants are another. Taking care of newcomers is an expense that was down-loaded to the municipal level. This region adds one million people a decade, mostly newcomers.
I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp for you.
Investing 10 million will surely help poor people right now and only once. But once you blow through that 10 million, you have zero left.
Take that 10 million and investing in a project that will pay back that 10 million 10 times over, while putting ongoing millions into City coffers is better than a 1 time shot of 10 million.
You can do a lot more to help the City with an investment that constantly drives revenue than just taking the money and blowing it on something without a tangible ROI.
Jabberwalker @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:44 pm
What you don't seem to grasp is how hard it is for a municipality to put their hands on 10 mullion dollars in the first place. For an entity like a Province or the Federal government that have the power to levy income taxes, 10 million is chump change. Even a big city like Toronto has to work hard to find 10 million dollars, just lying around. That "ten times return" sure doesn't sound right (sounds more like a pyramid scheme pitch) . If it were true, there would be private investors lined up around the block and tax money would not be part of the mix. That they have their hands out looking for public money tells me that it is probably a seriously shitty investment.
Sponsoring sports team doesn't drive much revenue for them. What it does do is subsidize "special" buddies like MLSE. It's a glaring sign of corruption, in fact. They have no business being in circuses. If they are so desperate for that 10 million, get one of their federal or provincial buddies to cut them a cheque. Federal and Provincial taxpayers don't seem to care how their money is used.
llama66 @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:37 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
In the whole scheme of professional sports, $10 million is peanuts.
Especially when you think MLSE spent 10x that on the transfer fees for Bradly and Defoe...
Jabberwalker @ Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:08 pm
... and they're having trouble finding private investors to cough up 10 million WITH A TEN TIMES RETURN!! GUARANTEED!!!
I have a little development going called "Moose Meadows". Perhaps, you'd like a piece of that, yourself? I'll sell it to you at the wholesale rate because I like your style!
OnTheIce @ Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:58 am
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
What you don't seem to grasp is how hard it is for a municipality to put their hands on 10 mullion dollars in the first place. For an entity like a Province or the Federal government that have the power to levy income taxes, 10 million is chump change. Even a big city like Toronto has to work hard to find 10 million dollars, just lying around. That "ten times return" sure doesn't sound right (sounds more like a pyramid scheme pitch) . If it were true, there would be private investors lined up around the block and tax money would not be part of the mix. That they have their hands out looking for public money tells me that it is probably a seriously shitty investment.
Sponsoring sports team doesn't drive much revenue for them. What it does do is subsidize "special" buddies like MLSE. It's a glaring sign of corruption, in fact. They have no business being in circuses. If they are so desperate for that 10 million, get one of their federal or provincial buddies to cut them a cheque. Federal and Provincial taxpayers don't seem to care how their money is used.
Sponsoring sports team doesn't drive much revenue for them. What it does do is subsidize "special" buddies like MLSE. It's a glaring sign of corruption, in fact. They have no business being in circuses. If they are so desperate for that 10 million, get one of their federal or provincial buddies to cut them a cheque. Federal and Provincial taxpayers don't seem to care how their money is used.
Epic fail.
The budget of the City of Toronto is 9.6 billion. 10 million is also chump change for them. They have money set aside for special projects, grants, etc that could be used for something like this.
A City investing in a project that drives tax revenue isn't the same as a private investor looking for a monetary return. The City is being asked to spend 10 million on a building they own which in turn, allows for larger events which drive more tax revenue into the City coffers. You're trying to compare apples and oranges.
Why are you having such a hard time grasping that this 10 million wouldn't be a subsidy, it would be to enhance a building THEY OWN to drive MORE REVENUE into the City.
In the end, I'm not surprised you don't get it. Probably never will.
OnTheIce @ Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:00 am
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
... and they're having trouble finding private investors to cough up 10 million WITH A TEN TIMES RETURN!! GUARANTEED!!!
I have a little development going called "Moose Meadows". Perhaps, you'd like a piece of that, yourself? I'll sell it to you at the wholesale rate because I like your style!
I have a little development going called "Moose Meadows". Perhaps, you'd like a piece of that, yourself? I'll sell it to you at the wholesale rate because I like your style!
Jabberwalker @ Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:15 am
Your just dying to spend hard-to-come-by tax money on a private enterprise, aren't you?