NDP considering dropping 'new' from their name
Mustang1 @ Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:05 pm
Lemmy Lemmy:
Yeah, but they ceased to be a Socialist Party about 10 years ago. As I said on another thread, they've become an "issues party" (the environment, gay marriage, legalizing pot, etc). They've become a dirty fly-paper for any malcontents with an axe to grind. As ShepardsDog said, and I paraphrase, "Tommy Douglas would be embarassed by what the NDP has become".
So, let's call them what they are: The Issues Party.
So, let's call them what they are: The Issues Party.
Well... the CCF sort of started as an ideological/issues party although it wasn't purely a party insomuch as it was also a movement - one that included farmers, labour and socialists. Its successor, the NDP is actually classified as an "ideological party" however, i will concede that it is, in some ways an issue party as well. While they have indeed endorsed "issues" this is hardly out of character although i guess one could argue the degree that these issues influence policy.
The NDP is still a socialist party (I suppose the degree of socialism is up for debate) - it clearly exists on the left of the political spectrum and it clearly represents an ideological alternative to the Conservatives and Liberals. From a pure marketing angle, use it, differentiate yourself and broadcast your ideological leanings.
QBall @ Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:17 pm
Lemmy Lemmy:
Yeah, but they ceased to be a Socialist Party about 10 years ago. As I said on another thread, they've become an "issues party" (the environment, gay marriage, legalizing pot, etc). They've become a dirty fly-paper for any malcontents with an axe to grind. As ShepardsDog said, and I paraphrase, "Tommy Douglas would be embarassed by what the NDP has become".
So, let's call them what they are: The Issues Party.
So, let's call them what they are: The Issues Party.
Agreed, because Lord knows they have issues.
gigs @ Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:08 pm
Dance Party works just fine!
KorbenDeck @ Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:32 pm
Mustang1 Mustang1:
I say call them Canadian Socialist Party or National Socialist Party and have done with it. Only the habitually uniformed consider "socialism" a nasty term, so use it, and furthermore, it clearly themselves ideologically from the other parties.
To say Canadian or National would mean they have a National or Canadian interest, from what I see with them they are more pro-minority and pro-immigrant than pro-Canadian. Think about it the NDP caters more to special interest groups than everyday Canadians. You are correct about how when many people hear socialism they think full blown commies.
ASLplease @ Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:54 pm
N stands for 'new'?
I thought it stood for neurotic
j/k
Mustang1 @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:17 am
KorbenDeck KorbenDeck:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
I say call them Canadian Socialist Party or National Socialist Party and have done with it. Only the habitually uniformed consider "socialism" a nasty term, so use it, and furthermore, it clearly themselves ideologically from the other parties.
To say Canadian or National would mean they have a National or Canadian interest, from what I see with them they are more pro-minority and pro-immigrant than pro-Canadian. Think about it the NDP caters more to special interest groups than everyday Canadians. You are correct about how when many people hear socialism they think full blown commies.
Huh? Pro-minority isn't Canadian? How delightfully inclusive your Canada must be. The NDP is a National Party - you may not like their policies, leadership or direction, but they run in every riding, construct national platforms and even have a decent representation at the provincial levels. Seems to me, that equates to a national party.
DerbyX @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:38 am
Mustang1 Mustang1:
I say call them Canadian Socialist Party or National Socialist Party and have done with it. Only the habitually uniformed consider "socialism" a nasty term, so use it, and furthermore, it clearly themselves ideologically from the other parties.
You got that right. Socialism isn't a big bad ideology. Canada works quite well and many aspects of our country are indeed socialism. Hell they might adopt "Labour" although that might link them to the British Labour Party.
Myself I don't see whats so important about a name change or why "New" is being rejected. Perhaps they should age their party to the "Teenage Democratic Party" and go after the youth vote.
ShepherdsDog @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:38 am
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Lemmy Lemmy:
Yeah, but they ceased to be a Socialist Party about 10 years ago. As I said on another thread, they've become an "issues party" (the environment, gay marriage, legalizing pot, etc). They've become a dirty fly-paper for any malcontents with an axe to grind. As ShepardsDog said, and I paraphrase, "Tommy Douglas would be embarassed by what the NDP has become".
So, let's call them what they are: The Issues Party.
So, let's call them what they are: The Issues Party.
Well... the CCF sort of started as an ideological/issues party although it wasn't purely a party insomuch as it was also a movement - one that included farmers, labour and socialists. Its successor, the NDP is actually classified as an "ideological party" however, i will concede that it is, in some ways an issue party as well. While they have indeed endorsed "issues" this is hardly out of character although i guess one could argue the degree that these issues influence policy.
The NDP is still a socialist party (I suppose the degree of socialism is up for debate) - it clearly exists on the left of the political spectrum and it clearly represents an ideological alternative to the Conservatives and Liberals. From a pure marketing angle, use it, differentiate yourself and broadcast your ideological leanings.
Initially the CCF was motivated more by the Social Gospel, 'I am my brother's keeper', than the economic socialism espoused by Marxism.
leewgrant @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:58 am
DerbyX DerbyX:
Hell they might adopt "Labour" although that might link them to the British Labour Party
Forget about the Brits. Layton et al sure don't want to return the NDP to the party controlled by the unions. They have tried to ditch that image for years.
Mustang1 @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:39 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Mustang1 Mustang1:
Lemmy Lemmy:
Yeah, but they ceased to be a Socialist Party about 10 years ago. As I said on another thread, they've become an "issues party" (the environment, gay marriage, legalizing pot, etc). They've become a dirty fly-paper for any malcontents with an axe to grind. As ShepardsDog said, and I paraphrase, "Tommy Douglas would be embarassed by what the NDP has become".
So, let's call them what they are: The Issues Party.
So, let's call them what they are: The Issues Party.
Well... the CCF sort of started as an ideological/issues party although it wasn't purely a party insomuch as it was also a movement - one that included farmers, labour and socialists. Its successor, the NDP is actually classified as an "ideological party" however, i will concede that it is, in some ways an issue party as well. While they have indeed endorsed "issues" this is hardly out of character although i guess one could argue the degree that these issues influence policy.
The NDP is still a socialist party (I suppose the degree of socialism is up for debate) - it clearly exists on the left of the political spectrum and it clearly represents an ideological alternative to the Conservatives and Liberals. From a pure marketing angle, use it, differentiate yourself and broadcast your ideological leanings.
Initially the CCF was motivated more by the Social Gospel, 'I am my brother's keeper', than the economic socialism espoused by Marxism.
Actually, the Social Gospel was a component but it didn't hold the influence of radical economic strategies, all derived from a socialist base, articulated clearly in the Regina Manifesto's socialism. In fact, the CCF was a "direct descendent" of the BLP in its ideology and the Regina Manifesto closed with a definite socialist call of "eradicating capitalism". The Social Gospel elements were certainly present in the 1930s (but, the interesting thing is in some instances Marxism was also added to create a kind of Social Gospel), but by post Regina (which was calling full gov't ownership of banks, insurance and trust companies and proposals of medicare, hospital and dental insurance) the CCF was moving more into the democratic socialist vein. Less radical, but still socialist-lite.
ShepherdsDog @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:43 am
The NDP is like most parties. It's an umbrella of diffeent organizations with disparate agendas. There have been serious cracks have been revealed when labour and environmental issues have come into conflict.
Mustang1 @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:53 am
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
The NDP is like most parties. It's an umbrella of diffeent organizations with disparate agendas. There have been serious cracks have been revealed when labour and environmental issues have come into conflict.
It's true, but the NDP and the earlier CCF can at least claim that this has been the norm for them from the outset.
Lemmy @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:58 am
The CCF was also an regional party; a farmers' issues party. It didn't really become a labour/socialist party until it became the NDP and went national, despite its leftist agenda.
The current NDP is a lot more like the CCF was than the NDP in the 1960s-1990s. The CCF was created to address farmers' issues. Now the NDP is a pseudo-leftist special interest party again. As I said before, I never liked the NDP, but at least I respected them when they were a socialist/labour party. Now they're just a mish-mash collection of kooks with nothing in the way of a defining political platform.
Newsbot @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:00 pm
Title: NDP to Consider Name Change
Category: Business
Posted By: Mukluk
Date: 2009-08-04 18:53:22
Canadian
Mukluk @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:00 pm
The funniest part of this story for me is that I may just have to get a "DP" shirt with Layton's picture on it. That porn star moustache would finally have meaning.