Trudeau says deaths and disappearances of Indigenous women a
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Mowich @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:41 am
llama66 llama66:
And why do you hold on to the thought of all Canadian's are responsible for the plight of the indigenous people?
And really the MMIW findings lay out a splendid case for ending the IA and making the indigenous community a part of the Canadian community. You want these murders to to stop? lets stop segregating the indigenous folks from the rest of us.
And really the MMIW findings lay out a splendid case for ending the IA and making the indigenous community a part of the Canadian community. You want these murders to to stop? lets stop segregating the indigenous folks from the rest of us.
Mowich @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:44 am
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
There was an interesting independent study on this very subject a few years back done by a woman. It seems that across all racial groups in Canada, women are murdered predominantly by men of their own racial group.
The only reason the MMIW is still being kept alive is because leftists and certain Native groups don't like the obvious conclusion.
The only reason the MMIW is still being kept alive is because leftists and certain Native groups don't like the obvious conclusion.
As already said you people REPEATEDLY, MMIW is not about what race the killer is, it’s about police refusing to properly investigate MMIW cases. Why is that so hard for you folks to understand?
Bullshit. The RCMP said that the majority of cases — 81 per cent in the past two years — continue to be solved at a rate comparable to that for cases involving non-aboriginal women, which was at 83 per cent over the same time period.
So what you and the report are inferring is that the 17% of the unsolved cases involving non-Aboriginal women, the cops still worked diligently to try and find the killer, but the 19% of unsolved cases involving Aboriginal women is simply the cops refusing to investigate properly. That about sum up the bullshit narrative there sport?
Mowich @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:45 am
llama66 llama66:
$1:
FFS the Canadian government is responsible for the plight of the Canadian people, that’s the whole fucking point of having a fucking government.
That's not the point of government. At all.
$1:
The FN people have been demanding an end to the Indian Act for generations. The IA was a tool created by the colonial government of the time to control FN people. You keep talking about it as if it’s something the FN support. That said, just like any other race of people on the planet, so long as they are disproportionately poor and marginalized, a disproportionate number of them will live high-risk lifestyles and suffer from social diseases like drug abuse, alcoholism, etc.
The government is not responsible for what choices a citizen makes. This is not the Soviet Union... we are all responsible for our own decisions. They have the opportunity to go to post secondary and have careers and a life, yet some choose to live a high risk life. This is the duality of life in a free society. We have the right to succeed, and we have the right to fail.
N_Fiddledog @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:28 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Sure let’s say the Genocide ended in 1996 which is when the last government sex abuse factory closed.
I have this old indian lady buddy. She was getting reparation money for the native school fiasco from her school days. She was collecting back in the 80s for decades before that. So I don't know what you're talking about.
I used to live next to a catholic indian school before that. They were sent there from the rez if they wanted to go. They did fine. It was nothing like what you're pulling your hair out and hoping to force out an alligator tear over.
It's as you turn into College Heights and turn off towards the trailer park in PG, Herb. Is it still there?
If there was a genocide going on back then neither I nor anybody I knew heard about it. And seeing as a lot of the people I knew lived on the Rez I'm thinking one or two of them might have. That was back in "Highway of Tears" time and country too, but none of that was a genocide. It was, as Ezra said, a slow motion crime wave.
Even if you want to use your redefined definition from the UN Human Rights people, Beave, you're forgetting this important bit:
$1:
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
https://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalIn ... ocide.aspx
Get it? It's a redefinition corrupted for a Convention on Human Rights by some UN sub-committee and even at that event they insisted on seeing an intent - meaning they wanted to see a planned strategy to cause wide-spread harm of some sort to a large sub-culture of some sort.
General Romeo Dallaire is correct on this. That wouldn't apply to the missing or murdered women. So far that's psychos and other societal dysfunctionals from many races including aboriginal perpetrating harm for perverse reasons of their own. There is no conspiracy of intent by any group against any group.
llama66 @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:41 pm
BuT tHe GeNoCiDe! Reeeee!
BeaverFever @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:04 pm
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
There was an interesting independent study on this very subject a few years back done by a woman. It seems that across all racial groups in Canada, women are murdered predominantly by men of their own racial group.
The only reason the MMIW is still being kept alive is because leftists and certain Native groups don't like the obvious conclusion.
The only reason the MMIW is still being kept alive is because leftists and certain Native groups don't like the obvious conclusion.
As already said you people REPEATEDLY, MMIW is not about what race the killer is, it’s about police refusing to properly investigate MMIW cases. Why is that so hard for you folks to understand?
Bullshit. The RCMP said that the majority of cases — 81 per cent in the past two years — continue to be solved at a rate comparable to that for cases involving non-aboriginal women, which was at 83 per cent over the same time period.
So what you and the report are inferring is that the 17% of the unsolved cases involving non-Aboriginal women, the cops still worked diligently to try and find the killer, but the 19% of unsolved cases involving Aboriginal women is simply the cops refusing to investigate properly. That about sum up the bullshit narrative there sport?
No that’s not what the RCMP said at all, once again you misquote information that you fundamentally don’t understand.
To repeat myself:
The numbers are misleading because that’s not the solve rate for missing women or women with suspicious deaths, only for “murdered” women, so it only includes cases where the police agreed there’s been a murder, not situations where they didn’t bother opening any investigation at all or where they’ve classified the death as misadventure , such as Nadine Machiskinic, a 29-year-old mother of four whose body was found in a hotel garbage chute under suspicious circumstances but has not been labeled a homicide.
BeaverFever @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:40 pm
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Sure let’s say the Genocide ended in 1996 which is when the last government sex abuse factory closed.
I have this old indian lady buddy. She was getting reparation money for the native school fiasco from her school days. She was collecting back in the 80s for decades before that. So I don't know what you're talking about.
I think you don’t know what YOU’RE talking about. She must be a time-travelling old Indian lady because the residential school settlement act was only enacted in 2006 and recipients were paid out over 7 years: 10,000 in year one then $3000 per year for the 6 following years. I get more than $3,000 on a single paycheque so I’m not expecting $3,000 per year which would have dried up about 5 years ago was changing any lives, especially in remote communities like Attawapiskat where groceries for a family of 4 costs almost $2,000 per month
$1:
I used to live next to a catholic indian school before that. They were sent there from the rez if they wanted to go. They did fine. It was nothing like what you're pulling your hair out and hoping to force out an alligator tear over.
Firstly I don’t expect that you know much about that school or the people who went there and secondly even if this one supposed school was “fine” it wouldn’t prove anything about the residential school system as a whole which is commonly accepted to be horrible mistreatment.
$1:
If there was a genocide going on back then neither I nor anybody I knew heard about it.
Funny. That’s exactly what so many average German citizens said in 1945
$1:
And seeing as a lot of the people I knew lived on the Rez I'm thinking one or two of them might have. That was back in "Highway of Tears" time and country too, but none of that was a genocide. It was, as Ezra said, a slow motion crime wave.
Blah blah blah.
. So I’ve said I don’t really care to call MMIW by itself a “Genocide” but the bigger history of how FN have been treated since first contact up until only a few decades ago before is I think pretty close....for example forced sterilization and forced transfer of children both listed in your link definitely happened as recently as the 1990s.... there’s been no clean break with the past just a slow gradual transition to the present state with lots of consequences of the past still unaddressed
Blah blah blah.
BeaverFever @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:58 pm
llama66 llama66:
$1:
FFS the Canadian government is responsible for the plight of the Canadian people, that’s the whole fucking point of having a fucking government.
That's not the point of government. At all.
OMG of course it is! So let me get this straight: the next time there’s a tornado or a hurricane you think the government should just say “it’s not our job to help Canadians “??
Please tell me what you think IS the point of government, other than to subsidize oil companies?
$1:
$1:
The FN people have been demanding an end to the Indian Act for generations. The IA was a tool created by the colonial government of the time to control FN people. You keep talking about it as if it’s something the FN support. That said, just like any other race of people on the planet, so long as they are disproportionately poor and marginalized, a disproportionate number of them will live high-risk lifestyles and suffer from social diseases like drug abuse, alcoholism, etc.
The government is not responsible for what choices a citizen makes. This is not the Soviet Union... we are all responsible for our own decisions. They have the opportunity to go to post secondary and have careers and a life, yet some choose to live a high risk life. This is the duality of life in a free society. We have the right to succeed, and we have the right to fail.
Here’s the thing they DON’T have the same opportunities for school or careers that non-FN communities have; their communities don’t get the public amenities or the expertise provided to our communities by our provincial and federal governments. A lot of these communities don’t even have secondary schools FFS and the children have to be sent away to places like Thunder Bay.
Secondly provincial governments have a whole range of programs intended to help people out of poverty. You may have heard of something called SOCIAL PROGRAMS. FN communities get a fraction of that.
Lastly for you to suggest that systematically abused children raised in squalor who then grow up to lead troubled lives are simply individuals who made bad choices and have nobody to blame but themselves...,well that is ridiculous and shockingly ignorant. They were victimized as a group why wouldn’t they be helped as a group.
llama66 @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:09 pm
So then the Government is responsible for my idiot decisions? No. I fucking am.
The government provides emergency services, my fucking insurance (that I pay for) gets me back on my feet.
Government's role is to provide National defence, promote international trade and ensure we don't all kill each other. That's it. Full stop.
N_Fiddledog @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:32 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Sure let’s say the Genocide ended in 1996 which is when the last government sex abuse factory closed.
I have this old indian lady buddy. She was getting reparation money for the native school fiasco from her school days. She was collecting back in the 80s for decades before that. So I don't know what you're talking about.
I think you don’t know what YOU’RE talking about. She must be a time-travelling old Indian lady because the residential school settlement act was only enacted in 2006 and recipients were paid out over 7 years: 10,000 in year one then $3000 per year for the 6 following years. I get more than $3,000 on a single paycheque so I’m not expecting $3,000 per year which would have dried up about 5 years ago was changing any lives, especially in remote communities like Attawapiskat where groceries for a family of 4 costs almost $2,000 per month
$1:
I used to live next to a catholic indian school before that. They were sent there from the rez if they wanted to go. They did fine. It was nothing like what you're pulling your hair out and hoping to force out an alligator tear over.
Firstly I don’t expect that you know much about that school or the people who went there and secondly even if this one supposed school was “fine” it wouldn’t prove anything about the residential school system as a whole which is commonly accepted to be horrible mistreatment.
[quoteIt's as you turn into College Heights and turn off towards the trailer park in PG, Herb. Is it still there?
$1:
If there was a genocide going on back then neither I nor anybody I knew heard about it.
Funny. That’s exactly what so many average German citizens said in 1945
$1:
And seeing as a lot of the people I knew lived on the Rez I'm thinking one or two of them might have. That was back in "Highway of Tears" time and country too, but none of that was a genocide. It was, as Ezra said, a slow motion crime wave.
Blah blah blah.
. So I’ve said I don’t really care to call MMIW by itself a “Genocide” but the bigger history of how FN have been treated since first contact up until only a few decades ago before is I think pretty close....for example forced sterilization and forced transfer of children both listed in your link definitely happened as recently as the 1990s.... there’s been no clean break with the past just a slow gradual transition to the present state with lots of consequences of the past still unaddressedBlah blah blah.
You're most likely right about my old indian buddy. Actually I was closer to her daughter. But I do remember running into her decades ago and she was telling me how her and her brother were expecting residential school student money. Then a couple years ago I was talking to her daughter on the phone and she was telling me how the money was spent. I put the two together incorrectly I guess.
But I was around that whole scene back around 80s to 90s and I didn't see any genocide.
And you tell me that's what the Germans used to say about the holocaust. I don't know whether to laugh or scratch my head at that one. Yes, native kids we're taken from parents and put in schools with the purpose of reordering their cultural identity but equating that with what happened in the holocaust is ridiculous to the point of being obscene.
Saskanna @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:52 pm
llama66 llama66:
God, our so-called leadership is a bunch of fucking morons. I swear to god, Trudeau is so stupid he'd die of suffocation if breathing wasn't automatic.
Yes, and if re-elected this country is in serious trouble. There is nothing so dangerous as a stupid leader who thinks he's wise and wonderful.
N_Fiddledog @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:03 pm
But let's talk about this one, Beave:
$1:
So I’ve said I don’t really care to call MMIW by itself a “Genocide” but the bigger history of how FN have been treated since first contact up until only a few decades ago before is I think pretty close....for example forced sterilization and forced transfer of children both listed in your link definitely happened as recently as the 1990s.... there’s been no clean break with the past just a slow gradual transition to the present state with lots of consequences of the past still unaddressed
Well, priests abusing children and the eugenics programs of the past weren't exclusive to aboriginals. But yes, some specific native populations were made available for that abuse by force. And yes there were some indian girls that appeared to be singled out by their ethnicity for sterilization. There was forced transfer of children during the residential school program and I think I heard somewhere that the idea there was to "take the Indian out of the child" to paraphrase something I think I saw somewhere. You tell me this ended in the late 90s of the last century. My believe is it ended before that but whatev...
Here's your UN Human Rights meeting definition of genocide.
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
So how many were de-indianed by these policies? I believe 6 million Jews died in the holocaust. I'm feeling an inadequacy of equivalence there that your UN human rights meeting definition of genocide doesn't cover.
When did these de-Indianing policies end? The Holocaust ended. Are you saying another difference between the Holocaust and the de-Indianing policy is that your de-Indianing holocaust - unlike the real holocaust - is still going on because Nadine Machiskinic got drunk and stoned then fell 10 stories down a garbage chute and the police won't call it a homicide?
N_Fiddledog @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:44 pm
And I think I've figured it out. Apparently my memory isn't completely defective. Possibly a little out of focus every once in awhile.
A couple details may be fuzzy but my main point was correct.
By Beave's own definition the label "genocide." no longer applied to the residential school program in the 80s.
$1:
Despite the shift in policy from educational assimilation to integration, the removal of Indigenous children from their families by state officials continued through much of the 1960s and 70s.
Not into the 80s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... ool_system
There was also something they call the "60's scoop." That did end in the 80s.
https://globalnews.ca/news/2898190/what ... s-history/
N_Fiddledog @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:55 pm
BTW Beave is there any difference between cultural genocide and physical genocide?
Should there be? Or will you and yours just redefine again if it should become convenient in the future not to think of them as equivalent?
martin14 @ Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:56 pm
Saskanna Saskanna:
llama66 llama66:
God, our so-called leadership is a bunch of fucking morons. I swear to god, Trudeau is so stupid he'd die of suffocation if breathing wasn't automatic.
Yes, and if re-elected this country is in serious trouble. There is nothing so dangerous as a stupid leader who thinks he's wise and wonderful.
A motivated idiot is far more dangerous than an enemy of the state.
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