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Probably, that's what she was doing. Not meaning any harm, just being nice to a kid. Same with the guy, he was just just being his fundamentalist vegan self. Not meaning harm, just pointing out hippocracy.

The internet then takes it to eleven, like its usual extreme self.

"Lady buys kid ice cream, the outrage and fallout at 11"

   

They are both right.

One of our close friends is a vegan and in poor health. She often remarks on why we (older couple) are in much better health. I always say you should eat more beef.

   

Gotta agree with PA9 on this one!

   

Veganism is a difficult lifestyle to lead properly in relation to one's health. It's typically people who just jump into it and think it's just stop eating mean and cheese without any sort of research into foods or supplements that must be taken to remain healthy.

As much as vegans don't want to admit it, we are not built to not eat animal products, and as a result specific fortified foods or supplements must be present or they will die.

   

Yes, we are. We don't require animal products in order to get the nutrition we require, its our food sources that don't provide them. Plenty of people around the world are vegan, just out of social norms and also because meat can be expensive.

Getting things like vitamin B12 that we don't produce is the only missing key to the North American diet because it's not included in any processed foods. We can get that though certain foods, or through supplements.

That Humans need to eat meat is just more of the false information we've been fed over the years. We can get our protein from plants, it's just easier to get it from animals. And that's how the ranchers want you to think.

   

You kind of contradicted yourself. If we can not eat meat, but we need to eat fortified or supplemented B12 food, then how are we built to not eat meat?

I'm not saying we can't do it now, we can because science has enabled it. But we are, by evolution, omnivoires because we require a vitamin that is exclusively found in meat or other animal products. At least in any reasonable concentration. There are things like mushrooms, but to get the daily recommended value you have to eat like 10 kilos of them.

Hence, we are not built to not eat meat without the assistance of GMOs or supplements.

   

I didn't say we couldn't eat meat, I said we don't need to. We aren't built to eat it - our teeth can't bite through a hide and onto a carcass, our hands don't have claws that can tear flesh, our tongues don't have the ability to rend flesh from bone and our teeth can't chew that bone to get to the fatty marrow.

We gained this ability through the use of tools and harnessing fire to pre-digest the meat and marrow. We are able to digest meat, but we don't require it to survive.



But it isn't. B12 can be gained through things like yeasts. In modern times, we can also synthesize many vitamins through non-animal sources. Most other vitamins can also come though a proper and varied diet. Ever ask your self if milk and bread are so good for you, why do they need to be 'fortified'?

If you go back in the history, you'll see things like eating white bread let children to develop problems in their hips that led to severe problems in bone development - until they were fortified. But we've been eating bread ever since some bright ancient Egyptian saw his grain and water porridge start to bubble and thought "what if I cook it?".

Why would it suddenly be bad for childhood development? Because we took the good stuff out of it by processing. The whole grains and yeasts were the things we needed!



We only started eating meat regularly 10 to 15 millennia ago, when farming turned to include ranching. We have had this form for more than 500,000 years. We didn't evolve to eat meat, any more than we evolved to eat lactose or gluten. Tolerance to lactose and gluten are evolutionary anomalies, as you can see by the large number of people intolerant to one or the other.

And you can get plenty of B12 by simply making your bread in the traditional sour dough method. Most people intolerant to gluten will find that they can have that kind of bread, very easily. Modern bakers yeasts store well, but don't break down the glutens properly for us to eat.

Did you know that if you eat whole wheat flour and water, you will eventually starve? But let the natural yeasts in the air do their work, and bake it, and you can survive indefinitely on just flour and water.

I really wish I had an 'owners manual' for this body. It's taken me a long time to figure out how to care for it, and in the mean time it's got some wear and tear and fallen out of warranty.

   

Using tools to process food is a product of our evolution. We never developed the physical requirements because our brains out-paced it and rendered that mutation pointless. That's not a valid argument as a result.


Engineered yeast. It does not naturally occur in yeast. So science has enabled it to contain it.

That's exactly my point, we synthesize something we need to live because it doesn't naturally occur in any plant based medium. I'm not saying the current idea of veganism is wrong, I'm saying it's wrong to say we could have been vegan our entire history. We as a species would not exist if our earliest ancestors adopted this mentality.

I've bolded the important word. I've never implied that we couldn't do just fine with a drastically reduced meat intake. I'm saying completely eliminating it would have killed us.

Gluten intolerance isn't real. Unless we are talking about Celiac disease, but that's completely different that the current "gluten intolerance" trend.
They find they can eat it because it's not a thing. There are few if any reputable sources that claim gluten intolernace to be a thing in humans.

And of course you can use bio-engineered products to get b12, I already said that about a billion times. There were no bio-engineered products 10000 years ago that gave us b12. So we as a species were required to eat meat products.
Source. Because that smells like bullshit.

That's great, what works for you wouldn't have worked for humans 10 to 15 thousand years ago. I have no issue with personal choices of vegetarianism and veganism today, provided it's done properly and safely. My issue stems from the fact they completely ignore biology of our species from it's onset.

   

If we didn't evolve the physical requirements to eat meat, we didn't evolve to eat meat. We adapted to eat it. Valid argument.



So how do the billions of people who don't eat anything made of animal get vitamin B12? It occurs naturally in the bacteria on many plants. The Western culture is to over clean and overcook our veggies, and wash all that bacteria that gives us B12, off. So there is nutritional yeast, that Vegans can use to supplement for B12. Incidentally, 1 in 6 meat eaters is also B-12 deficient.



We always used to hunt, but it wasn't a big part of our diet. If you look at one of the few African groups that still live by the 'old' ways, the men will go out on a hunt, but the women will scavenge for tubers and fruit and plants. When the men aren't successful, it's cassava for dinner!



And yet, there are billions of people right now that exist all over the world that don't eat anything made of Animal. And they don't die! For example, ever hear of a Jain?



Yes, it very much is. 'Intolerance' is an uneasiness when eating something. Ceilac disease is an allergic reaction. They are different, and intolerance is very real. Although, many who think they are intolerant probably aren't.



No, we aren't. See above. We can get B-12 from bacteria that exists naturally on plants.



I'm not Vegan. And I have given you direct evidence of our biology, and how we don't need to eat meat.

   

As you yourself pointed out, we are only NOW capable of synthesizing the nutrients we once obtained through the consumption of meat. Throughout our long development, we weren't. Beer and leavened bread, major sources of yeast, have only been around for a short part of our history, unlike animal protein. It was the animal protein and fat we consumed from animals that allowed our brains to develop over a million years or so that put us in a position where we can create our own sources. Evolutionary biologists have suggested that it was consuming sea life(fish and shellfish) that really boosted the brain's development. These sources were easy to obtain and consume, even with our small teeth and lack of claws. Had we not consumed animal protein, we wouldn't be discussing the necessity of meat in our diet over the internet.

   

Adapted and evolved are synonymous in meaning here. Chimpanzees adapted to using tools to get bugs and sap out of trees, they still evolved to do such a thing. Because then mates would have chosen those who can provide. Intelligence is still an aspect of evolution.

By using GMO products or supplemented food. Your own wikipedia link says this:

Which means it doesn't produce it on it's own.



I completely agree. Humans could have a 80-90% vegan diet and be just fine. We can not, without the help of science, have a 100% one.


Again, you're ignoring the right now, vs ancestors.

Also, from wikipedia link:


Vegetarian is different.



There is a possibility it's placebo:
https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists ... sn-t-exist

That it's something other than gluten:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-11- ... machs.html

And even if it is real, it's probably about 1% of the population. Which is less than the allergy of nuts. But no one screams from the rooftops that humans shouldn't be eating nuts. Basically, there isn't conclusive science on it.



Which it never contains, because then we'd be eating dirt as well. It's not on plants, it's in soil. So we'd have to eat the soil, to some degree, to get any of it. And we'd then be exposing our bodies to a host of other issues because the food we are eating isn't properly cleaned. We may get the good bacteria, but we also get the bad.


Now we don't need to eat meat. You haven't given me anything to suggest this of our ancestors.

   

What is the difference between those living today who do not eat meat or any processed (fortified) foods, and our ancestors? Places like India that have up to 40% of the population who are vegetarian or the 4%-5% who are vegan, and not just Hindus, but also Buddhists in other countries, and who live where there is no 'grocery store'?

I say there is no difference. The trouble with our argument is the severe lack of Wikipedia 2 million years ago.

Edit:

And my opinion is formed from many sources. The one I can point to is a program you can watch on Netflix - "Chef's Table", Season 3 - Chef Jeong Kwan, who is a Korean Buddhist monk who only cooks what she grows in the monastery garden. She isn't dead.

   

Final test:
Take one New York strip steak, cook it how you want it. No salt, pepper or other spices allowed.
Take one cup of chick peas, cook them how you want it. No salt, pepper or spices allowed.
Take one bite of each.
Decide which you want another bite of.

I’ve said it before and it appears I’ll say it again, eating a vegan diet may not give you 100 years, but it’s going to feel like it took that long.

   

Why choose the best of one and the worst of another?

How about Andouillette and garden peas? Or Liver and Chocolate?

   

Sorry. You lost me.

Which planet in the Vegan system did this guy come from?

   

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