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Bino,

"How kind of you to speak for them – you clearly can’t even fathom their suffering."

Where in that post have I spoken for the Afghan women? I can only speak as a woman that has experienced inequality and the steps it has taken to try and gain equality. And as a person that deeply believes that had some foreigner come to Canada and killed my family members to help me have "freedom" and "democracy" would not have advanced my cause. I would have become more inclined to support my men and my counry no matter how hard my like had been thus making any change I may have been trying to make on my own thrown years backwards because of the chaos my life would be in. I think people need relative safety to make the kinds of changes women want and need to be equalized. Yet women and children's causes are used like some kind of "guilt club" to swing at people that don't support wars that cannot possibly be about human rights and freedoms.



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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche

   

Here's a link to the big book:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/books/7thbook&CFID=127362&CFTOKEN=59865415">http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/books/7thbook&CFID=127362&CFTOKEN=59865415</a><br />
<p>---<br>"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden<br />

   

I've warned you before; do NOT resort to name-calling. Diogenes, stop trolling. Armyguy, ignore such obvious taunts; if you stay on-topic and ignore the trolls, they will go away.

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"Beer Garden'? You mean, a real garden of beer? I thought they only had those in Canada!" --Largo

   

30 million be damned.

Peace?

   

'30 million be damned'

We'll be over there for years smashing the place into peace and to hell with the consequences. Who cares about all that collateral damage? After all it'll be for their own good. We'll be killing and maiming them out of compassion right? Any idiot can see there's nothing wrong with that. Anyone can understand that's how you achieve peace. I don't know how I got off track with that untried idea about letting countries have the freedom to work things out in their best interest.



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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche

   

Those jihadists who detonate IED’s and kill children and women and innocents without a second thought are the problem. Not the coalition forces.

Again, all you need to do is look at the poll data I’d posted earlier.

“We'll be killing and maiming them out of compassion right”

Do you think that is what is happening there today? Do you think Coalition troops are just walking around, slaughtering people?

“letting countries have the freedom to work things out in their best interest.”

You still don’t seem to grasp that they had no “freedom” at all while the Taliban was holding them hostage.

Cute outlook though, if not in a painfully naïve sort of way.

Again, your bottom line seems to be this: Not our problem. We can’t help. Screw them.

I strongly disagree. Thankfully, so do the majority of Canadians.

   

“The women in Canada have had to fight for our right to vote, equal legal status, the rights to our own bodies, and are still fighting for equal pay. I would not want any other country coming into Canada and fighting those fights for me. If you believe that we can force other countries to be what you want them to be then you are likely the very person the women in Canada are having to fight to have their human rights.”<br />
<br />
Equal pay? Own bodies? LOL!<br />
<br />
See, you’re still not getting it. You’re talking about things like the right to choose, but in Afghanistan, there was no choice of any kind to be made by women, for they were on par with cattle.<br />
<br />
“As a person that deeply believes that had some foreigner come to Canada and killed my family members to help me have "freedom" and "democracy" would not have advanced my cause.”<br />
<br />
Do you realize that a woman’s word in court was worth nothing? If a woman was raped, she needed a male witness or else she was shamed out of “court” or even executed for being impure as a result of the rape she couldn’t even prove?<br />
<br />
“I think people need relative safety to make the kinds of changes women want and need to be equalized”<br />
<br />
Doy. That’s why were getting rid of the Taliban, building a police force, army, infrastructure. <br />
<br />
Give this link a gander:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.rawa.org/women.html">http://www.rawa.org/women.html</a><br />
<br />
Also, check out feminist.org - they've got some good stuff on the plight of the Afghani women as well.<br />
<br />
Here are some additional points to consider:<br />
<br />
Taliban restrictions and mistreatment of women include the: <br />
<br />
1- Complete ban on women's work outside the home, which also applies to female teachers, engineers and most professionals. Only a few female doctors and nurses are allowed to work in some hospitals in Kabul. <br />
<br />
2- Complete ban on women's activity outside the home unless accompanied by a mahram (close male relative such as a father, brother or husband). <br />
<br />
3- Ban on women dealing with male shopkeepers. <br />
<br />
4- Ban on women being treated by male doctors. <br />
<br />
5- Ban on women studying at schools, universities or any other educational institution. (Taliban have converted girls' schools into religious seminaries.) <br />
<br />
6- Requirement that women wear a long veil (Burqa), which covers them from head to toe. <br />
<br />
7- Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in accordance with Taliban rules, or of women unaccompanied by a mahram. <br />
<br />
8- Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles. <br />
<br />
9- Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside marriage. (A number of lovers are stoned to death under this rule). <br />
<br />
10- Ban on the use of cosmetics. (Many women with painted nails have had fingers cut off). <br />
<br />
11- Ban on women talking or shaking hands with non-mahram males. <br />
<br />
12- Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a woman's voice). <br />
<br />
13- Ban on women wearing high heel shoes, which would produce sound while walking. (A man must not hear a woman's footsteps.) <br />
<br />
14- Ban on women riding in a taxi without a mahram. <br />
<br />
15- Ban on women's presence in radio, television or public gatherings of any kind. <br />
<br />
16- Ban on women playing sports or entering a sport center or club. <br />
<br />
17- Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their mahrams. <br />
<br />
18- Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Taliban terms, these are "sexually attracting colors." <br />
<br />
19- Ban on women gathering for festive occasions such as the Eids, or for any recreational purpose. <br />
<br />
20- Ban on women washing clothes next to rivers or in a public place. <br />
<br />
21- Modification of all place names including the word "women." For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden". <br />
<br />
22- Ban on women appearing on the balconies of their apartments or houses. <br />
<br />
23- Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen from outside their homes. <br />
<br />
24- Ban on male tailors taking women's measurements or sewing women's clothes. <br />
<br />
25- Ban on female public baths. <br />
<br />
26- Ban on males and females traveling on the same bus. Public buses have now been designated "males only" (or "females only"). <br />
<br />
27- Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa. <br />
<br />
28- Ban on the photographing or filming of women. <br />
<br />
29- Ban on women's pictures printed in newspapers and books, or hung on the walls of houses and shops. <br />
<br />
<br />
Apart from the above restrictions on women, the Taliban has: <br />
<br />
- Banned listening to music, not only for women but men as well. <br />
<br />
- Banned the watching of movies, television and videos, for everyone. <br />
<br />
- Banned celebrating the traditional new year (Nowroz) on March 21. The Taliban has proclaimed the holiday un-Islamic. <br />
<br />
- Disavowed Labor Day (May 1st), because it is deemed a "communist" holiday. <br />
<br />
- Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them to Islamic ones. <br />
<br />
- Forced haircuts upon Afghan youth. <br />
<br />
- Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap. <br />
<br />
- Ordered that men not shave or trim their beards, which should grow long enough to protrude from a fist clasped at the point of the chin. <br />
<br />
- Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times daily. <br />
<br />
- Banned the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, describing it as un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned and the birds shall be killed. The kite flying has also been stopped. <br />
<br />
- Ordered all onlookers, while encouraging the sportsmen, to chant Allah-o-Akbar (God is great) and refrain from clapping. <br />
<br />
- Ban on certain games including kite flying which is "un-Islamic" according to Taliban. <br />
<br />
- Anyone who carries objectionable literature will be executed. <br />
<br />
- Anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion will be executed. <br />
<br />
- All boy students must wear turbans. They say "No turban, no education". <br />
<br />
- Non-Muslim minorities must distinct badge or stitch a yellow cloth onto their dress to be differentiated from the majority Muslim population. Just like what did Nazis with Jews. <br />
<br />
- Banned the use of the internet by both ordinary Afghans and foreigners. <br />
<br />
And so on... <br />
<br />
Again, this isn't even on the same planet as your fight against the glass ceiling.

   

"Diogenes, stop trolling"
'tell ya what Jesse, You sanction the abusers and I'll have no need to file abuse reports.
there were a couple of months of civility here then the abusers were allowed to go unchecked.
What did you excpect?

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Real education must ultimately be limited to men who insist on knowing, the rest is mere sheep-herding.
Ezra Pound

   

Jeff,

Are you and Bino one in the same? You keep speaking for Bino. Those are my words yet I still fail to see how you read them as speaking for Afghan women? I can only conclude that says a lot about you and how you comprehend or don't.

I see you've found all kinds of "guilt clubs" to beat me with however. I was raised in a Catholic family, I am immune to guilt, shame and beatings.

Does a different culture mean anything to you? How long do you think it takes to erase someone's culture? How long would it take someone to make you forget the history you and your family have lived for generations? ( And if you are Canadian, you can only have a very shallow history.)

The amount of money being spent on war machinery could buy peace over and over again using humanitarian means. Why is that not an option for you or should I be asking Bino?

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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche

   

Yeah – I’m Jeff/Bino. I joined this place while at work, didn’t change my password, and over the weekend I wanted to post but can’t dial in to work so I joined again from my other computer. I hope that isn’t too against the rules or something – I imagine both handles still ooze the same pseudo-knowledgeable arrogance. So there’s that.

Different culture does mean something to me, but not nearly as much as the right for human beings, women and minorities in this case, to be treated as such, and not as cattle or worse.

   

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