Canadian troops involved in Afghan shooting death

Written By: rearguard
Date: 2007-11-17 13:04:38
<a href="/article/163822187-canadian-troops-involved-in-afghan-shooting-death">Article Link</a>

"We deeply regret the loss of innocent civilian lives and a full investigation is being carried out," said Wing Commander Antony McCord, an ISAF spokesman for Regional Command South.

Full story here
<a href="http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/11/16/afghan-investigation.html">http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/11/16/afghan-investigation.html</a>

""We deeply regret the loss of innocent civilian lives and a full investigation is being carried out," said Wing Commander Antony McCord, ..."

Of course "we" do. We also regret being the invaders and telling the civilian population to obey us, or be shot. "Our" rules in that country, will not be tolerated in our own.

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Expect little from life and get more from it.

"a full investigation is being carried out"

That was supposed to be the punch line.

It wasn't all that funny. Contrary to popular belief, shooting unarmed civillians is far more traumatic than shooting armed hostiles.

Now we have a dead and a wounded civilian because a cab driver didn't follow simple rules. And we have a soldier who must relive this incident over and over for the rest of his life (who one day soon will be on our streets). Which may not be all that long, as he'll probably hesitate when the next one is a homicide bomber instead of a taxi.

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The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

"It wasn't all that funny."

No it's not, but we both know there won't be a meaningful investigation, and we both know what the outcome will be. What's the going compensation rate for Afghan "collateral damage", is it $2000 per loved one?

"Contrary to popular belief, shooting unarmed civillians is far more traumatic than shooting armed hostiles."

Having your loved ones die a violent and sensless death is even more traumatic.

"Now we have a dead and a wounded civilian because a cab driver didn't follow simple rules."

Yeah sure, it's the fault of the cab driver for going about his business while in his own country. Military occupations by nature tend to be very hazardous to the local denizens, the violent deaths are generally by random chance and are completely unavoidable no matter how careful you may be.

"And we have a soldier who must relive this incident over and over for the rest of his life (who one day soon will be on our streets)."

Spare me the tears. Whenever there's a war people will die, and the historical record shows that most of the victims of any war are always civilians. If you are a soldier that goes off to war, then chances are you will be responsible for killing many innocent people. Most of the civilian deaths will be caused by the destruction of basic infrastructure, and some will be killed directly, and it does not matter to the victims if the death, maiming, or loss of loved ones was intentional or not.

"Which may not be all that long, as he'll probably hesitate when the next one is a homicide bomber instead of a taxi."

That's a big heap to shovel: When the "innocent" guys on your team are killed, it's done by homicidal suicide bombers, but when your guys are doing the killing of innocents, they are traumatized victims.

"When the "innocent" guys on your team are killed, it's done by homicidal suicide bombers, but when your guys are doing the killing of innocents, they are traumatized victims."

It's no different that your portrayal of Canadian Soldiers as foaming at the mouth psychos gunning down civilians till they run out of ammo. Only mine is closer to the truth.

This whole series of events are what the 'homicidal suicide bombers' try to provoke. Dead soldiers, dead taxi drivers, dead civilians and grieving families all around. Nice people, we should invite a Talib over for dinner, get to know them better, share some salt!

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The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

Groovy?

So you are willing to cut slack for murderers simply because you bought them the gun?

Do you have any evidence to suggest that any of these 'Canadians' actually accept your morality on this? Militaristic organizations have NEVER historically produced 'human' values. They usually destroy them.

I agree though they will return; but I am not all that convinced that those returning, when they shot innocent civilians in a foreign and illegal war, didn't think to themselves that they "bagged a wog for the Queen".

Other than you and I paying for this military -- do have any evidence to suggest that the individuals in that military SHARE your beliefs about Canada.

It's kinda like law enforcement -- over the last thrity years, law enforcement in THIS country have, with little criticism from our corrupt politicians, have adopted every single strategy from American law enforcement. They get 911; we get 911. They get community policing to polish their PR drives; we get community policing. They con the public into 'amber lights'; we con the public into 'amber lights'. They have a 'war on drugs'; we have a 'war on drugs'.

In other words, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this 'merge' hasn't also been going on among Canada's military establishment and it's troops.

Are we sure that our 'sons and daughters' are really into Peace-Keeping and don't favour 'racist genocidal war for conquest'.

Most of the CanMilBots I've heard on the media, don't seem to think much of Canadian values or think Canadians are spineless idiots that don't know fuck all about the 'need' to kill some of the world's poorest people living in caves.

They kinda sound like the CanPoliceBots 'spinning' cold-blooded murder.

So they'll come back to a multiculturally diverse country made up of people who don't cotton to our way of life and maybe want to 'relive' that?

(Psst! I always don't wear the poppy anymore because I have had one too many professional conversations with 'enlisted' men who return sporadically to their government jobs -- many of them are raving fascist lunatics and that's WHY they joined the military in the first place)

"It's no different that your portrayal of Canadian Soldiers as foaming at the mouth psychos gunning down civilians till they run out of ammo."

Yes, but who is invading who? Those Canadian soldiers have no legitimate business militarily occupying Afghanistan, no more so than would we think that the Afghans have any business invading Canada. The fact is that Canada (i.e., the Canadian government) is the aggressor.

Sure, most of these soldiers had no idea that they'd be gunning down regular people trying to go about their daily lives, but as I was saying, this is what war does to people, and it happens no matter what the perceived intentions are. To the victims of war, they don't care if their deaths or maimings or loss of loved ones were accidental or not; the act of invading guarantees that this kind of thing will happen, therefore none of the deaths are truly accidental.

"we should invite a Talib over for dinner, get to know them better, share some salt!"

I'm sure that if I invited people from Afghanistan to my home there'd be absolutely nothing to worry about should the invitation be accepted, however if I forced my way into the homes of the Afghan people using deadly force, the response will be highly predictable. The crux of the matter is that those Canadian soldiers who are being targeted are not invited guests, they are home invaders.

"Nice people"

And what do you call those guys who are drop massive bombs from unseen heights onto sleeping villages?

"So you are willing to cut slack for murderers simply because you bought them the gun?" 
 
Ahh, he begins with his use of emotionally charged words. I really liked your equating educating Afghan children with residential schools, BTW. And yet, it's only the Taliban engaged in the sex abuse of the 'dancing boys'. 
 
You might want to look up the legal charge 'Murder', and why soldiers are exempt from such charges. Here's a hint - we give them guns, and ask them to kill and die for us. 
 
"Do you have any evidence to suggest that any of these 'Canadians' actually accept your morality on this?" 
 
Every day, when I drive to work; and on the news I see the statistics of people charged with impaired driving. I see the regard Canadians have for innocent life. 
 
"I agree though they will return; but I am not all that convinced that those returning, when they shot innocent civilians in a foreign and illegal war, didn't think to themselves that they "bagged a wog for the Queen"." 
 
That is your opinion. It is, of course, incorrect. The achievments (like 90% of Afghans now have access to healthcare and education) are severely underreported, while incidents like this are over reported. Like the news mantra 'If it bleeds, it leads'. 
 
"Other than you and I paying for this military -- do have any evidence to suggest that the individuals in that military SHARE your beliefs about Canada." 
 
I am former military, therefore, Yes. Plenty. And of course, there is the continued voluntary enlistment in the forces. 
 
"It's kinda like law enforcement -- " 
 
Nope. The military is not there to enforce laws. It's nothing like law enforcement. 
 
"In other words, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this 'merge' hasn't also been going on among Canada's military establishment and it's troops." 
 
You are looking for proof of a negative? Proving God doesn't exist must come easily to you. 
 
"Are we sure that our 'sons and daughters' are really into Peace-Keeping and don't favour 'racist genocidal war for conquest'." 
 
Don't tell me your one of those brainwashed into believing we are 'peacekeepers' are you? Man, that makes my work so much tougher. 
 
"Most of the CanMilBots I've heard on the media, don't seem to think much of Canadian values or think Canadians are spineless idiots that don't know fuck all about the 'need' to kill some of the world's poorest people living in caves." 
 
I'm not sure what you are trying to imply here, other than more emotionally laden rhetoric. Gen. Romeo Dallaire doesn't represent Canadian values and advocates killing cave dwellers? How about General John de Chastelain? Did he think that the Irish and English should just keep killing each other? Did the Irish live in caves? 
 
"They kinda sound like the CanPoliceBots 'spinning' cold-blooded murder." 
 
Only to your ears. The RCMP did not give the Polish guy a warning shot. 
 
"So they'll come back to a multiculturally diverse country made up of people who don't cotton to our way of life and maybe want to 'relive' that?" 
 
Mmmmm, no. 
 
<a href="http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071116/que_soldier_071116/20071116?hub=Canada">http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071116/que_soldier_071116/20071116?hub=Canada</a> 
 
List for me any 'peacekeeping' mission and then look up the suicide statistics for Canadian soldiers returning from that mission. Here, I'll give you my own: 
 
The last member I kept in touch with from my platoon in Somalia, MCpl Gomez, died in Afghanistan. All members of my squad from Croatia are dead, except for me - mostly self inflicted. Soldiers that return from service overseas have a very high suicide rate. My point is that so far, none of theses soldiers have attempted to harm anyone else when they commited suicide. But then again, there are enough unstable people in traffic now. 
 
"(Psst! I always don't wear the poppy anymore because I have had one too many professional conversations with 'enlisted' men who return sporadically to their government jobs -- many of them are raving fascist lunatics and that's WHY they joined the military in the first place)" 
 
Not wearing one is your choice. As is your perception of why they joined the military. Anyone I knew like that is now in JTF2. And frankly, I'd rather they were in the JTF where they can be more closely supervised. 
 
The rest didn't become Dentists or RadTechs or IT maintainence for the vast cosmic power and access to firearms, but to serve their country.--- The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

"Yes, but who is invading who? Those Canadian soldiers have no legitimate business militarily occupying Afghanistan, no more so than would we think that the Afghans have any business invading Canada. The fact is that Canada (i.e., the Canadian government) is the aggressor."

As I've shown you before, it is legal. Remember the link to the multiple unanimous decisions by the UN, giving any country the right to pursue purveyors of terror inside another countries borders?

And our initial boots on the ground were 40 people who weren't allowed by the countries rules to carry guns. Quite the invasion force. (respecting the laws of the 'invaded' country, after all)

"And what do you call those guys who are drop massive bombs from unseen heights onto sleeping villages?"

Other countries soldiers.

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The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

"I'm sure that if I invited people from Afghanistan to my home there'd be absolutely nothing to worry about should the invitation be accepted"

Not if you shared salt with them. You might want to look up what that means, before you agreed to it.

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The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

Um...yeah

I was expecting something a little more interesting...kinda lame.

So ya ...if your country calls, you run to the phone...no matter what.

Sounds like you have a vested stake in 'saving your way of life'.

But please do not insist that your participation in US wars of imperialism is somehow a noble exercise and YES! soldiers can be charged with murder.

For future ref, Mr. Harper, you lost 'cred' the moment you mentioned that 90%! education and health and jobs! jobs! jobs! crack. The Senlis Group begs to differ and has on several occasions, as have several other human rights groups.

But you are right about the Residential Schools thing -- Afghanistan is much worst. When our society consciously decided to 'destroy' aboriginal culture and replace it with our own artificial western culture (and thus followed in the footsteps of every OTHER nation that viewed the indigenous population has a 'hindrance' to nation-building and had to be overcome in some 'white' cultural version of the Rostow 'take-off'), the aboriginals actually 'knew' some of our culture, language and had EVEN accepted our bullshit Xtian mythology. Look how we fucked that up -- er -- or successfully eliminated them, depending on how you want to look at things. The Afghanis are on the OTHER side of the world, they don't even know our culture or language and sure don't accept our version of the Horus cult. But you want to claim something that we've done over there that we haven't even done here in Canada with our aboriginal population -- that is provide 90% of health and education to them...or even small towns outside of major cities in Canada.

Anyway -- murder? Ya soldiers can be charged with murder or unlawful acts in a war. You know that, so why basically lie to make your point.

Speaking of which -- do you know just how far we are apart on this? When you mentioned Romeo as a proud example, I immediately thought about the suspicion that Romeo was given a Senate seat in order to provide him with diplomatic immunity against possible testimony at the REAL Rwanda Commission that has been going on since 1998 in France, Belgium and Rwanda.

So what did Dallard discuss with French commanders during Operation Turquoise? How many times did he or they contact each other and what was discussed? Was Dallard ever in contact with US proxy RPF? Did he have any contact with Kagame, who was in the US training at Fort Leavenworth at the time and who three days after returning, became head of the RPF after the timely assassination of Rwigema? While we are on the subject, why did Karzai lie about not being in Afghanistan when Abdul Haq was assassinated at the outset of the western invasion of Afghanistan. Oh that's another subject...
As far as de Chastelain, I believe he tarnished his reputation by accepting a 'civilian' position as Canadian Ambassador to the US...another tasteless reminder of the Canadian system of political patronage. Then he compounded it by returning to the military via a 'rule change'. Honourable guy.

JFT2 (Canada's Secret Commandos!)-- news to me what they are doing, since they were operating in tandem with US Spec Forces in Northern Afghanistan, which by all accounts is more or less under the full control of the warlords, that have quietly instituted all the bad things the Taliban did with the added bonus of large heroin shipments. Funny I distinctly remember when JFT2, a counter-terrorism group that tookover the duties from the RCMP, was formed to protect THIS country and not some wildly unpopular US puppet government in Afghanistan. I heard an interview with Scott Taylor when he stated that early on, OUR JTF2 guys couldn't even wear the maple leaf. They had to wear US uniforms.

So to recap -- being in the Canuck army means you get bossed around by Amerikans, for Amerikan interests, in country's the Amerikans want to control and loot.

Anyway -- I want to get back to reading about the million plus refugees now in Somalia (say that rings a bell) forced out of Mogadishu due to the US proxy invasion via Uganda last year. You know, where their gunships might have murdered upwards of 800 fleeing tribesmen they thought were Al Qaeda?

So far...a million plus deaths... a million refugees in Somalia, half a million in Afghanistan and 4.5 million in Iraq -- all in the days work for Canada's proud military as they struggle to defeat the 'terrorists'. Great Canadian values!! Doubleplusgood!!

This has been going on for awhile and you are being lied to...IMHO.

Hannah had it right: "the banality of evil"

"But please do not insist that your participation in US wars of imperialism is somehow a noble exercise and YES! soldiers can be charged with murder."

Imperialism? Perhaps you need to review history. Giving it a negative 'buzzword' doesn't change that nether Serbs, Croats or Somalis had any 'oil', land or anything else worth the US's time. All of those actions were to prevent the genocide of people. And what does any of that have to do with Afghanistan?

And yes, soldiers can be charged with murder, but only under special circumstances. This soldier cannot be charged with murder. You still may want to look up why there is a Military justice system, and a civillian. Something you so conveniently overlooked in order to accuse me of lying.

"For future ref, Mr. Harper, you lost 'cred' the moment you mentioned that 90%! education and health and jobs! jobs! jobs! crack. The Senlis Group begs to differ and has on several occasions, as have several other human rights groups."

I don't need 'cred' when I have facts. Show me that number is wrong. And were you referring to the 'Selenis Council' backed by the Swiss Billionaire, Stephan Schmidheiny with ties to big pharma, the same council who advocates growing opium for cheap, and selling it to big pharma? No conflict of morals there.

"But you are right about the Residential Schools thing -- Afghanistan is much worst."

You misunderstand, I liked your equating the two as as a textbook example of FUD. Show me where Afghan children are taken from their home, forced to learn another language and culture, and then abused physically and sexually.

"Speaking of which -- do you know just how far we are apart on this? When you mentioned Romeo as a proud example, I immediately thought about the suspicion that Romeo was given a Senate seat in order to provide him with diplomatic immunity against possible testimony at the REAL Rwanda Commission that has been going on since 1998 in France, Belgium and Rwanda."

"Suspicion"? More facts, please. Less rhetoric.

"So what did Dallard discuss with French commanders during Operation Turquoise?"

How the hell would I know? I don't get invited to those things. Did you? Who the hell is 'Dallard'? And what does any of that have to do with Afghanistan?

"As far as de Chastelain, I believe he tarnished his reputation . . ."

Well, that is your 'belief'. He brought peace that has lasted to North Ireland. Nothing changes that fact.

"JFT2 (Canada's Secret Commandos!) . . .a counter-terrorism group that tookover the duties from the RCMP, was formed to protect THIS country and not some wildly unpopular US puppet government in Afghanistan."

Wow. So, when an counter terror group goes where the terrorists are . . .they aren't protecting this country from terrorists?

"I heard an interview with Scott Taylor when he stated that early on, OUR JTF2 guys couldn't even wear the maple leaf. They had to wear US uniforms."

You know, I heard an interview that a former Minister of Defense believes UFO's exist. Strangely, it was more logical than your statement above. While I like Mr. Taylor's work, the Maple Leaf is backed with Velcro. It will stick to any uniform. At least a former Minister of Defense is in a position to know about UFO's, while a reporter for Esprit de Corps would have very limited if any access to JTF2.

"So to recap -- being in the Canuck army means you get bossed around by Amerikans, for Amerikan interests, in country's the Amerikans want to control and loot."

Oh, more opinion! And you cleverly misspelled the name to add to the try to add to the tone of your opinion! How very 5th grade of you!

"
Anyway -- I want to get back to reading about the million plus refugees now in Somalia (say that rings a bell) forced out of Mogadishu due to the US proxy invasion via Uganda last year. You know, where their gunships might have murdered upwards of 800 fleeing tribesmen they thought were Al Qaeda?

So far...a million plus deaths... a million refugees in Somalia, half a million in Afghanistan and 4.5 million in Iraq -- all in the days work for Canada's proud military as they struggle to defeat the 'terrorists'. Great Canadian values!! Doubleplusgood!!"

So, what does this have to do with the death of a civilian in Afghanistan?

How about you present some facts, then we can debate. Instead of opinions, about which we can only argue.

"This has been going on for awhile and you are being lied to...IMHO.

Hannah had it right: "the banality of evil"

Obviously, so have you been lied to.

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The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

"Not if you shared salt with them. You might want to look up what that means, before you agreed to it."

I have no idea what you mean by "share salt" and a quick Google search brought nothing up. If what you mean is to offend my guests, then the response will be predictable. I tend to avoid deeply religious people because (in part) they are often easily offended by trivial things and have closed minds, however that observation applies to all deeply religious people not such Muslims.

What does any of this have to do with shooting to death taxi drivers and their passengers?

""And what do you call those guys who are drop massive bombs from unseen heights onto sleeping villages?"

Other countries soldiers."

Well then, what do you call soldiers who assist the guys who are dropping the bombs on top of sleeping villagers, and also shoot taxi drivers and their passengers to death?