Taxpayers don't have human rights!

My apologies.

My confusion on this point arose from a strong similarity between segments of the information presented on your site and information provided on DETAX sites.

As we're both aware, buying into DETAX 'facts' has caused considerable grief for some Canadians.

I appreciate your clarification of this point.

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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

Whoops.

meant to say 'what seemed to me to be a strong similarity...'

Sorry about that.

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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

gaulois, I accept your apology on Anon's behalf. We are all receptive in our own unique way and I very much appreciate everyone's comments. When you say "Corporations are supposed to pay taxes", think about how that is possible. In law, (refer to Barron's Educational Series "Canadian Law Dictionary" for definitions) it refers to a "corporation" as an "artificial person". An "artificial person" is defined as a "legal entity, not a human being" (read the rest of the definition). One can deduce if a corporation is not a human being and is therefore a thing, then how can it pay taxes? Never mind paying taxes, how can a thing do anything? As you said, "Explicitly attaching human rights to taxpayers look like some kind of new creative loophole to evade taxes", then you ought to know that by definition, a "thing" (such as a corporation) is not human, why even think of attaching human rights to it? Like I mentioned before but I'll say it again. It would be absurd to assign human rights to things, such as tables. May I remind you that evading taxes is against the law. If anybody owes taxes, they should pay those but not resort to violating the law. Since human rights belong only to human beings then the only logical conclusion must be that a "Taxpayer" is an inanimate entity, known in law as an "artificial person". Try comparing human rights that belong to human beings with the rights of a "Taxpayer" and then discern the difference between the two. One of those rights will supersede the other. Find out which one. Pritam Singh Markham, Ontario

Calumny,

If you or anyone should find any information on my site that is perceived as being even remotely similar to “Detax”, then please expose it. I will be most thankful to you for doing that. BTW, which “Detax” sites are you referring to? I thought most of them have packed up shop a long time ago.

No one should buy into any “facts” even when they are offered for free! Everyone has a responsibility to hold accountable anyone who offers “facts” of this sort. Please ensure that the “facts” are corroborated through the use of dialectical thinking, empirical evidence, reasoning, or discussion and debate, and also by understanding different thoughts to find out the truth.

What I find most distressing is the fact that some people who are the proponents of the so-called “freedom movement”, still refuse to accept the legality and constitutionality of the Canadian Income Tax system. Moreover, the theories advocated, are just that, theories! In the garb of a number of theories and myths (for a detailed description of the myths, please read the book “Tax Me I’m Canadian”) that were attributed to the “Detax” movement, people have been burned but have been too ashamed to talk about it openly. The same is true with the recent scandals involving the use of taxpayer dollars by our government. Since people are not taught to ask the sorts of questions that would empower them to ferret out the truth (correct information) or expose the lies (wrong information), there are people who are still getting burned. If we do not question, then it’s quite possible for a Mack truck to drive through our house and no one would notice.

If you read the contents of my website in a relaxed state of mind, this ought to make you more curious and ask more questions. Just keep in mind that when questions are asked only for the sake of asking, this is also a form of not taking responsibility for one’s need to learn. Eventually, you and others may reach a point in our discussions when the information that I provide, may become difficult to understand. Like any teacher who observes his students asking questions, sometimes those questions indicate to the teacher that the student isn’t spending the time to read the textbook. Although students always look for shortcuts to learning a subject, a good teacher knows this and provides guidance accordingly.

We have the best country on the planet but many of us don’t know this. While many of us are used to complaining and being angry about what we see is wrong, there are but a few who are willing to learn the knowledge that can and would make a difference. In our anger, we find it easy to point the finger at the government or anything that is an easy target for our discontent but rarely have we been willing to empower ourselves with the correct information. Remember, when one points his finger at others, there are three fingers pointing back at one’s self.

Pritam Singh
Markham, Ontario

My apologies also,

I have been informed that I may have been a bit heavy handed with my response; I did not mean to offend anyone. I know that 99.9% of the population of Canada, only know what they have been told, and put trust into our leaders. Our Country is in great danger of loosing our way of life because of many reasons, money is at the top of the list, most divorces in this country is over money problems, we have more poor people in this country now then in its short history, the middle class is disappearing. The average Canadian is working harder and their spouse also has to work, a whole new generation is growing up without a full time parent at home. Why you ask? Money, there is just not enough or cannot make enough to make ends meet. So you have to ask yourself, who has the best interests for my family the government or me? If your answer is the government then things are as they should be, but if you think that you can better manage the money for your family then there is an option. This is what this discussion is about that option, if you want to take on more responsibility and control over your life and your families then the information is available to you.

Simple things like you can open a trust account for your children’s education or you can do the governments RESP, but you need extra money to do so. Are you better equipped to save money for your own retirement or is the government with their RRSP, CPP? Money deducted from your pay cheque, are you better off looking after that money or is the government? This is just an option if you want to take responsibility for your life then you can, if not the government will take that responsibility for you. (That is what you pay them for)

With the system in place now it is very hard to get ahead, the more hours you work the greater the percentage of payroll taxes you pay. If you get a higher paying job the greater amount of payroll taxes you pay, most home business fail in the first five years. (Because you do not get to keep the money that you make)

Ben Franklin said it all “a penny saved is a penny earned”

Hollis-Wilson: Dykens
A living-breathing-flesh-and-blood Man

Thanks, Pritam.

I have a passing acquaintance with DETAX views. These still have adherents throughout Canada (particularly in the west).

For the refence of any interested:

www.detaxcanada.org

For a tongue in cheek look at DETAX drawbacks:

http://www.camagazine.com/index.cfm/ci_ ... a_id/1.htm

I apologise for any misconceptions or assumptions that I may have had after my initial quite relaxed scan of your site. As previously indicated, the similarity of some of the terminology used, e.g., 'slave' to that of DETAX information, and the indication that there may be a method through which one can legally relieve themselves the burden of income tax or withholding of the same from those CRA may view as employees may have misled me. My thoughts in this regrd may have been influenced to some extent by the Hollis-Wilson comments.

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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

Calumny,

Thank you for sharing that link. It is hilariously funny but conveys the point very well. Unfortunately, it does not address the genuine concerns hardworking Canadians intuitvely know that something is terribly wrong but can't put their finger on it. Telling Canadians if they break the law they would end up in jail, does nothing to bring about a resolution. By making people afraid, it reaffirms the status quo and puts a lid on the need for people to become curious and ask the important questions that need to asked. The use of fear is an excellent tool to kill people's curiosity. Once people's curiosity is killed, then hope for any improvement dies along with it.

When people feel enslaved to the point that two incomes don't pay for the mortgage and only temporary short-term contract jobs are available if any at all and they don't see a way for their concerns to be recognized, then out of sheer frustration, they will do whatever they can. That is the nature of being human. Sometimes, costly mistakes are made but if those do not help people to learn and evolve, then there is no sympathy for such mistakes.

If you think that the word "slave" is a borrowed word that the "Detax" people use, then what word would better describe doing work for a government bureaucracy for free?

Which law obligates business owners to hire people to do paperwork for the government without being paid? Which law makes it mandatory for every Canadian to spend hours learning all the changes that occur from year to year and then spend his/her time to file income tax returns, without being compensated? If Canada Revenue Agency or any other government department wants people to do its work, then why they do not pay money for that?

From small business owners to the heads of large corporations, people feel obligated to spend lots of money for their payroll departments to hire employees such as accounting professionals and other staff (sometimes lawyers) who are merely hired to perform paperwork for the government. Since we have a law for minimum wage, howcome people are doing work such as keeping track of GST and doing payroll deductions, Record of Employment forms, T4 and T4A forms, etc., without being paid?

If you answer that this is the cost of doing business, then that would mean one does not have any choice. If one does not have any choice, then isn't this more like being a slave? The question to ask is, why is it that one does not have any choice? Is there a law that compels people to work for the government for free?

Pritam Singh
Markham, Ontario

Pritam

As I've expressed in other posts on the site, my view is that in a true democracy the citizens are the de facto government. In this democracy, citizens could hire individuals to manage national, provincial, municipal day to day business on their behalf and designate certain decision making (on behalf of the citizens) powers to them. These public employees are directly responsible to the citizens for the decisions made on the citizens behalf.

Now, we're obviously talking high level here and the mechanics that would make this system work could be reasonably complex (certainly moreso than that of a one person dictatorship.). But, I'm sure you get my point.

In the above-mentioned democracy the work you describe would, if it existed, be performed by citizens on behalf of themselves. If some remuneration or recognition of effort in this regard was judged by citizens to be fair, this would be factored into the equation.

However, we aren't living in that type of democracy at the present time and this being the case, I quite understand where you're coming from, particularly given the ever expanding complexity and time required by individuals and businesses over the past fifteen or so years to comply with legislative/administrative requirements.

I'll speak in generalities for a moment.

The ITA is six or so inches thick for a reason, one of which is that as tax legislation is not always black and white; people make use of the grey areas; are subsequently challenged by the CRA; fight the issue in court and sometimes win, after which the source of the issue often makes its way into the ITA and the grey area disappears.

As we're both aware people don't always win disagreements with the CRA because the final authority as to which of the individual's and CRA's interpretation of the law is correct belongs to the Supreme Court.

As I indicated, the above is a general comment and not made in reference to any aspect of the education you offer or your site.

I fully agree with you that citizens in a democracy should be questioning the activities of their government and gain some understanding of the legislation which impacts their nation and life. If citizens believe there is a problem with either, they should work towards a solution.

And I agree with you that many probably feel something is wrong, both in taxation and other areas, but perhaps can't quite put their finger on what it is. At least part of the reason is, as you're obviously aware, lack of knowledge by the citizen as to how 'their' government and legal system actually work.

I'd venture what could be a totally off-base guess that whether fair or right, the answer to your final remarks re: slaves might be that 'under Canada's self-assessment system etc.'. I'm not saying Canadians should be mindless automatons who amiably trot off to the slaughter every year, just that as things currently stand it's important for individuals to fully appreciate the risk and potential consequences in making a stand based on principle and/or their particular interpretation of law, and particularly so when it comes to matters such as tax.

My original concerns arose from my perception that your original post was a thinly veiled advertisement and my personal desire not to see this become a trend for Vive articles and a suspicion that you were offering a DETAX type of service. As I don't like to see individuals hurt through trusting information that while presented in good faith by the author is in fact erroneous, I raised my concern.

Hopefully we've cleared up any initial misunderstanding on my part and I again apologise for any errors in my initial perceptions.

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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

If the Government was printing the Currency as they should be , not private for profit Banks then the need for taxes would be gone. That should be the Key Goal of every disgruntled Canadian. Sirgalahad.

The system is not designed to work in our favor. The Politician matters not. The system needs changed. We need to go back to being Freemen and Women as we should be. Get rid of this yoke around our necks.We need to get back to Common law and the Magna Carta and as free persons put controls on our Government and system. They no longer serve us but serve themselves and the Big Corporations. Get rid of Maritime law and all pertaining to it.Get back to the inalienable rights granted to us by our Creator and then and only then will we control those issues we so detest.

A nicely put bit of info. Time for Canadians to wake up.I for another read most of the issues you speak of and reality is a tough thing to swallow. Most people would not recognize the truth if it bit them ,there in lies the problem. Most Elitists be it Corporate or Politician ,Lawyer, or King, really do not give a damn what our wants and needs are as long as we pay the lions share of the bills.Face it people until we are prepared to face the issues and get off our duffs, expect more of the same. It will get worse. Tks Sirgalahad.

This comes under true liberty as our Creator deems it should. Freemen taking responsibility for them selves and keeping capital raised by ones own labor.Keeping the tenets of Faith, hope and charity in our hearts to care for those who are not able. Not paying Caesars taxes. Having our proper Leadership print our currency not private enterprise. This would render taxes obsolete as it should.To use Natural law with common law and base our existence on the Magna Carta. Allow the Government only the required power to see to business. Law made by the people for the people.The right to recall poor performers. The right to know who and where our money is being spent. In general we need a properly Constituted Government to serve not dictate. Maritime law as we have or to put it another way, Corporate Roman law should never dabble in human affairs. When we as a nation face these and more real issues then and only then will we be a true free nation of people. The yoke needs to be lifted and the changes need to be made. If not we will remain'LEGAL FICTIONS" with deep pockets to pick clean. I for one do not recall giving over my life to this or any other Government. Have you? Thank you Sirgalahad.