Harper says unaware of alleged vote suppression
BeaverFever @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:35 am
Gunnair Gunnair:
Those six Liberal and NDP ridings going in for a by-election as well?
If it can be reasonably argued that the electoral outcome of those ridings was affected, then yes, probably.
1Peg @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:49 am
raydan raydan:
The excuse, "I didn't know", is too convenient though. We hear it all the time from politicians, CEOs and bosses in general. Difficult to prove either way, I think we should always lean towards the "he knew" side.
Accountability is the word.
Accountability is the word.
Guilty until proven innocent! I love it! To bad we couldn't apply that to all criminals in Canada, or the ones that already have a criminal past.
OnTheIce @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:50 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Gunnair Gunnair:
Those six Liberal and NDP ridings going in for a by-election as well?
If it can be reasonably argued that the electoral outcome of those ridings was affected, then yes, probably.
by-elections aren't an option.
The vast majority of these elections were won by thousands of votes.
Are this types of calls wrong? Absolutely.
However, I don't think they changed any of the outcomes in these ridings.
raydan @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:55 am
1Peg 1Peg:
raydan raydan:
The excuse, "I didn't know", is too convenient though. We hear it all the time from politicians, CEOs and bosses in general. Difficult to prove either way, I think we should always lean towards the "he knew" side.
Accountability is the word.
Accountability is the word.
Guilty until proven innocent! I love it! To bad we couldn't apply that to all criminals in Canada, or the ones that already have a criminal past.
I'm not talking being criminally responsible, only accountable.
If your 5 year old steals candy, you should not be held criminally responsible, but you should be accountable for his acts.
OnTheIce @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:57 am
Lemmy Lemmy:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
And Elections Canada and the police are investigating the allegations as they should be doing.
I agree. Now replace "Elections Canada" with "Ministry of Health" and you have exactly what I said about ORNGE...an argument you summarily dismissed.
So according to you, because Stephen Harper is the leader of the Government Canada and in turn, Elections Canada, he would be to be held accountable for these calls even if they came from a Liberal, NDP or Green campaign?
BeaverFever @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:58 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
by-elections aren't an option.
The vast majority of these elections were won by thousands of votes.
Are this types of calls wrong? Absolutely.
However, I don't think they changed any of the outcomes in these ridings.
The vast majority of these elections were won by thousands of votes.
Are this types of calls wrong? Absolutely.
However, I don't think they changed any of the outcomes in these ridings.
The actually remain an option on the table for Elections Canada (and/or the courts) to consider on a case-by-case basis for each riding.
bootlegga @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:54 am
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Find who did it, charge them. Who cares if its Tories, Libs or Dippers? If there's an offence, do them. If any senior Tories are involved, charge them too. Pretty easy eh?
Nobody can defend the indefensible.
Nobody can defend the indefensible.
Stop injecting common sense into this thread!
Don't you know the partisans have already made up their minds!
Lemmy @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:10 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
So according to you, because Stephen Harper is the leader of the Government Canada and in turn, Elections Canada, he would be to be held accountable for these calls even if they came from a Liberal, NDP or Green campaign?
Nope. I don't think political leaders should be held responsible when civil servants, volunteers, whatever fuck up unless they directed them to do whatever they did. That's why I don't think E-Health and ORNGE should come back on McGuinty. It wasn't his fault and when he learned of the problems he acted to correct them.
andyt @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:16 am
Buck's gotta stop somewhere. Political accountability should lie with the politicians.
PublicAnimalNo9 @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:31 am
Curtman Curtman:
Conservative scripts misdirected voters in 2011 election, say call centre staff
Thanks to the Harperites for royally screwing this up for themselves.
$1:
OTTAWA—Callers on behalf of the federal Conservative Party were instructed in the days before last year’s election to read scripts telling voters that Elections Canada had changed their voting locations, say telephone operators who worked for a Thunder Bay-based call centre.
These weren’t “robo-calls,” as automated pre-recorded voice messages as commonly known. They were live real-time calls made into ridings across Canada, the callers say.
These weren’t “robo-calls,” as automated pre-recorded voice messages as commonly known. They were live real-time calls made into ridings across Canada, the callers say.
Thanks to the Harperites for royally screwing this up for themselves.
$1:
The woman said her script directed her to say she was calling on behalf of the Conservatives.
So what you are saying Curt is, certain elements within the CPC committed this election fraud, only to announce to everyone they called that the calls were being made on behalf of the CPC.
I know whenever I committed fraud on behalf of my employers, I always made sure to mention them in the commission of the act.
BeaverFever @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:58 am
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
So what you are saying Curt is, certain elements within the CPC committed this election fraud, only to announce to everyone they called that the calls were being made on behalf of the CPC.
I know whenever I committed fraud on behalf of my employers, I always made sure to mention them in the commission of the act.
I know whenever I committed fraud on behalf of my employers, I always made sure to mention them in the commission of the act.
I would say this story sounds more like the kind of screw-ups associated with call-centre outsourcing rather than a deliberate attempt to supress votes. Why would you call non-conservatives and identify yourself as a conservative with helpful voting info? I think the resources at the call centre were deficient and the call centre manager just ignored employee feedback, which is in keeping with the "shut up and do what youre told" atttitude that is is so common in those kinds of workplaces.
I chalk this one up to piss-poor execution and quality control on the part of the call centre management and also on the part of the hiring client (CPC).
EyeBrock @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:29 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Find who did it, charge them. Who cares if its Tories, Libs or Dippers? If there's an offence, do them. If any senior Tories are involved, charge them too. Pretty easy eh?
Nobody can defend the indefensible.
Nobody can defend the indefensible.
Stop injecting common sense into this thread!
Don't you know the partisans have already made up their minds!
I thought I'd be crazy Paddy/Brit and say the obvious!
andyt @ Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:31 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
So what you are saying Curt is, certain elements within the CPC committed this election fraud, only to announce to everyone they called that the calls were being made on behalf of the CPC.
I know whenever I committed fraud on behalf of my employers, I always made sure to mention them in the commission of the act.
I know whenever I committed fraud on behalf of my employers, I always made sure to mention them in the commission of the act.
I would say this story sounds more like the kind of screw-ups associated with call-centre outsourcing rather than a deliberate attempt to supress votes. Why would you call non-conservatives and identify yourself as a conservative with helpful voting info? I think the resources at the call centre were deficient and the call centre manager just ignored employee feedback, which is in keeping with the "shut up and do what youre told" atttitude that is is so common in those kinds of workplaces.
I chalk this one up to piss-poor execution and quality control on the part of the call centre management and also on the part of the hiring client (CPC).
How about the calls at 3am asking people if they were willing to have a liberal sign put up on their lawn? Just a screw up? Who gave those call centers the scripts the workers were reading from? Info on voting places for example?