During the last year of Liberal rule Alberta was polling support for separation at 43% while Martin had quietly hired Marc Lalonde of NEP fame to begin preparing the federal tax against Alberta’s energy industry. Newfoundland was experiencing a revival of nationalism with many people seriously questioning their place in Confederation in a manner not seen since they joined. Liberal corruption was so bad that even Quebec separatists were emboldened and confidently planned the next referendum. And in our weakness tiny Hans Island was claimed another country while some of the world was starting to regard Canada as a joke.

Canada’s government was also becoming anti-US almost to a level one would encounter with a third world nation.

Harper has been an amazing leader for Canada. He stopped Alberta, Quebec and NFLD separatists dead in their tracks. Out of character for a Canadian politician, he has done what he has said he will do and he is restoring not only the world’s faith in Canada, but also that of Canadians.

What fate would have befallen Canada had Martin and the Liberals won a majority in the election?

   

Being somewhat of a liberal I have to agree with you on all points but I really don't believe either are good for this country because neither are driving this country forward .

   

Don't forget the unrest in Quebec. They would definately have been pissed if the Liberals were not punished for Adscam. The west would have taken a big hop, skip & jump towards leaving, if the east didn't beat us first.
Also keep in mind that Paul Martin promised to ban all handguns. Legally purchased products would have been confiscated with, or without compensation. I don't know how even Liberals can defend that on a civil rights basis.

   

I think many would argue the opposite. That Harper is driving this country whereas the Liberals allowed it to idle and be passed by other nations.

   

Do you have some stats to back up that 43% stat? It seems awfully high. I haven't heard anyone talk about separating from Canada (including those friends/family members who are Tories/Cons). As for Newfoundland's nationalist 'revival', I find that dubious. Premier Williams won a huge concession from Ottawa just last fall, so why would they leave, especially now that they get to have their cake and eat it too (ala Federal government transfer payments and keep their oil/gas revenues).

As for Hans Island, if Mulroney hadn't been such a cheap bastard, we would have had a huge icebreaker (Polar Eight) up there all winter long, backed up by nuclear submarines. But he didn't buy them, so that's the Liberals fault...how does that work? If you honestly think that Denmark has such a great military, check it out some time. Their biggest ship (Thetis class) is 1500 tons lighter than a Halifax FFH or an Iroquois DDH and far less capable. They sure as hell couldn't be deployed to the Persian Gulf to support a US CBG. The only advantage they have is an 'ice-strengthened' hull, which allows limited Arctic patrols (even they can't be used in the dead of winter). We also have more fighters, ground troops and spend a lot more on defence than they do (real dollars, not that per capita BS).

I agree that elements of the Liberal party were anti-American, but that is something the Liberals have always been. It doesn't make it right, but people like Parrish found out that there is only so far you can go down that road before it hurts you. It's like a Liberal bashing the Tories/Cons for catering to the rich and big business and ignoring the little guy.

I would hardly compare a handful of idiots like Parrish with Venezeula's Chavez (I'm guessing that's who you alluded to), who thinks the US is out to assassinate him and makes outrageous claims every few days. Personally, while I'm against anti-Americanism, I can't understand how someone like you could be against it, as your statements are so xenophobic (about anyone other than Western Canadians and Albertans in particular), that it should be right up your alley.

You are correct that Harper has kept several campaign promises. I liked his purchases for the CF, but his tax cut was a joke. His "I'll reduce taxes by $5 here and increase them by $4 there" tax cut didn't help anyone except the wealthy, who can now save an extra $1000 on every Hummer they buy.

Having said all that, who knows what would've happened if Martin had won? My guess is that things would be essentially the same. Most of the defence purchases that Harper made were planned as well by the Libs (JSS, airlift, helicopters). And Martin's financial abilities are above reproach, even though his leadership was lacking sometimes.

Still, I'll reserve judgement until Harper been in office an entire year and I can see how his first budget worked. He needs at least a modest surplus next year or he's in trouble. If he goes into deficit, he'll get run right out of Ottawa.

   

Yes I remember separation in Quebec was over 40% because of the scandal ad scam. Newfoundland separation is probably not the most severe thing to worry about now and as they feel no one cares if they do or do not anyway. Honestly how many people care? I doubt southern Ontario would

As for linking the Mulroney comparison government. Ever notice the PC is gone and this is a new Conservative party mostly based off the Canadian alliance reformers.

For things being different I don't think the liberals would have invested as much in the armed forces as the Tories did. I think they would have gone cheaper on that. Also the conservatives again with defence seem to have more planned for our arctic sovereignty as well. Plus we probably wouldn't have made some push forward for a softwood lumber deal. But you can look at that as good or bad. It is not the best deal but not the worst but it does get the border open. Our standing in the world does seem to be improving too.

But they did have a point cutting GST does benefit everyone. Whether you are filling up with petrol in your car or need a new microwave you do save some money. For those don't drive they gave people like me who take transit even get a tax credit too. Trades people get $500 tax credit to help them pay for tools. Students can claim $80 a year for books. Even our farmers are getting $2 billion to help them. So saying the Tories gave $5 and took $4 back is very misleading. According to the 2006 budget they are giving $20 billion in tax relief for Canadians.

Also if the liberals came to power how would they be handling Afghanistan? How would have dealt with the mounting casualties the Conservatives have felt the full brunt of? Pulling out I presume or moving back to Kabul away from the dangerous Kandahar region they committed us too. Or maybe send them to Sudan for a bit and pat themselves on the back for a job well done? What about Israel invading Lebanon? How well would they have got people out the region if at all? I wonder if Mr.Martin would have offered his own aeroplane to help people? Plus they would have catered to the Lebanese in Canada most likely and say we condemn Israel’s actions blah blah please stop doing bad things. Shake their fist and hope the story gets out of the media soon would be what I would imagine.

Not to mention Quebec would have been probably ticked off from a liberal win and so would western Canada. I would have been shaking my head wondering how could Canadians be so stupid? Alberta probably would have ended up wanting a referendum on leaving Canada or there would be a more push for it. Quebec too would be pushing for one. Some things would be fundamentally different under a liberal win not for the best either. Even now they still have not learned. They are just as arrogant as they always were and I will not even consider giving them my vote until they clean themselves up.

   

The 43% stat GFPB quoted was on ALBERTA separating, not Quebec.

The Libs had authorized the Joint Supply Ships in 2003 and they authorized new Hercs, SAR planes and Chinooks in Nov 05, just before the government fell. They only new thing the Cons added was the strategic airlifters (likely C-17s) and the trucks for the Army, which the Libs would have purchased eventually too. The difference is the Libs would have had some Canadian company make a knock-off or some homemade design and they'd wind up with more shitty LWVWs.

My point that Mulroney screwed us had nothing to do with the Cons or Harper. I simply pointed out that had a previous 'right-wing' government followed through on its promises, the Arctic would be a Canadian playground...

Yes, the GST cut does help everyone. They took 1% off of a cosumption tax, so when I buy cigarettes (don't smoke), booze (don't drink), or a variety of other things (gas, clothes, etc), I get a break. However, the Cons also raised income taxes to the point that it almost cancels out the GST tax break.

Seeing as how Martin was the one who made the decision to send our troops into southern Afghanistan, I'm not worried on that point at all.

As for the assumption that Alberta wants to separate, that is the hope of a handful of rural Albertans and no one else. The Alberta Separation Party (or whatever they are calling themselves these days) has a membership of maybe 10,000. Not bad, until you realize that Alberta has over 3.5 million people in it.

   

Sorry I thought he meant Quebec. They were like 44% or something in a few polls. Polls have also showed Alberta separatism has been over 40% as well and for Western Canada about 30% want too. Also it is mainly the young people who do, which as you know are the future. So I wouldn't just call it the most rural people want to either.

Which tax did they raise again? I didn't see it in the budget. But you could be right about that one. Martin and his party would have caved probably on Afghanistan. Martin really wanted to go to Sudan not to Afghanistan anyway.

   

If the Liberals had won again, it would be another term full of promises with nothing concrete. The Liberals promise alot and deliver nothing. Look how long it took for them to try and get a child care plan together. Didn't they promise that in the early 90's? The only time they actually do anything is when they are utimately forced to by public pressure. Good riddance, and I hope I don't see them in power for twenty years or so.

   

You're the most sheltered Albertan I've ever spoken with. Its almost as if you really don't live here and just pretend.

Western Canadian Separation Poll

CTV Story



I'll say. He presided over the largest theft of tax dollars in history and appointed the overseers. "above reproach" is a pretty accurate way to put it.

*Edit - wrote "but" when should've been "put".

   

Do you mean LSVW?



How long should liberals play the Mulroney card? I mean, the last go the liberals were in power longer then the PC. Hell, the Liberals were in power most of last century.

If Harper is in power for the next 11 yearts and does nothing about the Arctic should we blame Chretien or will it still be Mulroney's fault?



Leon Craig was the final speaker at the Calgary Conference, an assembly of Canadians from across the country united by their concern that Confederation needs to be refreshed before it fractures. He gave a rousing speech on the merits of Alberta separation and was given a very lengthy standing ovation.

Ralph Klein stated 2-3 years ago that the biggest threat to the Provincial Conservatives was not from the NDP or Liberals but rather the separatists lying in wait of the next NEP or other Ottawa (liberal) attack.

The Liberal David Kilgour wrote a book about Alberta separation called "Uneasy Patriots".

And spare me the tired 'you're a separatist because you dare to talk about the truth' BS that seems to be the only response you liberals have.

Have you noticed the only Albertans on this site to not claim that there is a real under current of separation threatening Canada are people like Calgary 123 and Banff who also believe GWB plotted and carried out the 9/11 attacks?

Get your head out of the sand and start taking the threats to this country seriously. Your apathy and ignorance is the greatest threat to Canadian unity.

   

The same way it worked when Chretien cancelled the helicopter contract and ignored the need for new ones for all three of his terms, but it somehow became the Conservatives fault when Sea Kings started dropping from the sky.