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Whatever you may think about the war in Iraq, its hard to argue with the following statements...

...and that



implying that Canada does not.

And he's right. Canada has been coasting on the tails of the Western alliance for a long time. Canada has chosen to cut its military over the past 3+ decades, choosing not to burden the cost of more military spending, which, by implication, means offloading its own defense even more so on the US. Only Luxembourg spends less as a percentage of its economy in NATO than Canada. No wonder there's occassional resentment towards Canada when it self-righteously finger-wags at America - I mean, when anyone is paying attention at all, which they're usually not.

Heck, despite all of Canada's preening about peacekeeping, Canada's actions don't match its rhetoric or belief. Unless the UN is wrong, (or I'm reading it wrong), Canada ranks 35th in troops committed to peacekeeping around the world.

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/contr ... 2005_2.pdf

So whether or not you agree with the war in Iraq, or whether or not you like Bush or even the United States, its awfully hard to disagree with Australia's assessment that Canada isn't pulling its weight.

   

Sad, but True

   

While Canada Slept
Good book.

   

I assume this was prompted by Op DEEP SABRE currently ongoing in the Pacific



The current rife between the two countries lies more in who will be the first to craft a free trade agreement with China then because Australia is prepared to defend itself and help others through peacekeeping.

New Zealand was thrown out of the ANZUS alliance, in which the US guarantees the security of New Zealand and Australia. NZ was thrown out for being a questionable ally while Australia is a main player in determining Pacific defence policy because it sees itself as a stabilizing force in the region and has enough pride that it doesn’t wish to be wholly dependent on another nation for its protection. Canada is much like NZ but was once like AUS.



I wish Canada was more like Australia. Scratch that, I wish Canada was what it once was before Trudeau destroyed it.



Well said.



Not well said. Embarrassing yes, funny? no.



Do you feel this way about Bosnia, Macedonia, East Timor, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Golan Heights, or any of the almost 50 odd countries we have anywhere from a BG to 1 L/O? Many soldiers have died over the past generation "peacekeeping" of which Lieberals have had no trouble sending Canadian soldiers anywhere they felt political expediency. I hope their deaths are not in vain. I can appreciate your desire to avoid killing and trust me, it is a nasty business but one that must often be done. It is the job of soldiering and if you are not prepared to fight and die irrespective of politics, then you shouldn’t wear the uniform. I think that all that could ever be said for/or against the war has been said. Let us respect the Americans who are risking many sons in a struggle they feel is noble and just. They are our brothers.

   

These are crap arguments.

Just who is the US protecting us from? Russia? North Korea? China? Germany? Libya? Not a single one of these countries could do much more than maybe lob a couple of cruise missiles at us. For all of them but Russia and Germany, it would be next to impossible. This myth of Canada being protected is BS. The only nations capable of doing any real damage to or occupying a part of Canada are our NATO allies, like the USA, UK and France. No one else has enough power projection to get anywhere near our coasts!

Canada ranks 35th in total troops committed to peacekeeping. Let's not forget that leaders like Bangladesh and Fiji send all their malcontents with NO equipment and get supplied by the UN. Why? Because the UN pays the peacekeeper's nation a boatload of cash, which they use to keep their economy afloat. We could easily do the same, but most countries would much prefer a highly trained Canadian infantry battalion as opposed to the poorly trained, led, equipped units that Fiji, Bangladesh and most others send on UN missions.

And this right-wing fascination with 'percentage of GDP' is total bullshit. Who pulls more weight in NATO, Luxembourg with their $244 MILLION US defence budget or Canada with its $10.039 BILLION (2003 figures). What a joke! BTW, oh so wonderful Australia spent only $9.705 BILLION, so they're not exactly pulling any more weight than us...I haven't seen Luxembourg send thousands of troops to Afghanistan yet. Spain spent even less than us ($9692 Billion), but they were Bush's buddy until they decided to pull out of Iraq after 3/11.

Don't believe my numbers, check out the SIPRI website yourself;

http://www.sipri.org/contents/milap/mil ... base1.html

   

You must be referring to the loonies in that country south of us. They are one of the "nuts with nukes" countries.

   

You neglected the Cold War that was a clear threat to Canada for close to 40 years and an ancillary threat for another 10. Currently, there are few threats to Canada but that does not belittle 50 years of protection from the US that followed on 150 odd years of protection by the British Empire. Sure it is unlikely that China, India, Pakistan and all the other countries lieberals like to suspect hunger for our water and other resources, or just those with imperialistic expansion on the brain, are a real threat today. But this doesn’t ensure the future 10 25 or 50 years of which you can’t predict.

And maybe the most important threat; perhaps a solid friendship with the US prevents them from absorbing us in order to make a problem disappear.

Or hey, here's something we've never tried in 200 years, lets take responsibility for ourselves like a real country.



You have obviously never served on a Canadian mission.



And we did. Under UNPROFOR in Bosnia the Libranos stole the UN supplied danger pay to Canadian soldiers, put it in the treasury and claimed they were already fairly paid and it was conflict of interest for any agency other then Canadian government to pay troops.

So, either retract your statement over these foreign peacekeepers who don’t deserve your belittling or you can cock the hammer on your own lieberals. Look forward to your choice.



Its an embarrassment when we take a battalion and staple a mortar platoon to it and call it a Battle Group



That was certainly true in the past however, successive Librano governments shirking their responsibility and raiding the military for funds have left us with a military which lacks an ability to communicate on the battlefield rendering us a liability and a threat to coalition forces. Furthermore, we lack the ability to move our troops. These Bangladesh you mock can at least get their soldiers to their Area of Responsibility without having to either contract out to civilians of foreign armies.



The real joke is that virtually every nation in NATO has publicly chastised Canada for its lack of due diligence in maintaining its responsibility to the alliance. (Remember we don’t even keep bases in Europe any more because we can’t afford it). Surprisingly, Canadians, who obviously have no pride, simply ignore the criticism or make irrational arguements about right-wing GDP fascination.

We could chronicle the Librano induced deficiencies for months and still not reach the end of the list. It doesn’t change the fact the Military is impotent, the Libranos are satisfied, and Canadians are apathetic and clueless.

   

How about China? How about Russia? Both of those countries have the military capabilities to blow Canada off the map. The fact that we're friends with both those countries now is not relevant. That fact that they could roll over us is relevant. But of course, they never would because, well, we live right next to the US. Besides, one of the lessons of 9/11 was the enemy can strike at anywhere, anytime, and you don't necessarily know who the enemy is.

Besides, you miss the real point. Canada is highly dependent on the international economy. Canada benefits enormously from the international economic system. The international economy needs protection. That doesn't mean you have to support invading another country, but Canada can't even remotely protect its own interests in the internationl economy. For example, what does Canada do to protect the world's shipping lanes so it can send its raw materials to other parts of the world? Those lanes are protected primarily by the US navy.



So what you are telling me is that Canada's contribution of 307 troops - according to the UN - is a significant contribution to peacekeeping? Or are the UN's own methodologies wrong?



So expenditure as a percentage of wealth does not matter, eh? Its funny then that the "total bullshit" "left-wing fascination" about foreign aid seems to revolve around "percentage of GDP". I don't know how many times one has to hear about the "total bullshit, left-wing" argument that the US doesn't contribute enough in foreign aid. Well, by your reasoning bootlegga, the US is a far more generous contributor any other country in the world simply because its spends more. The US spent $19 billion last year on foreign aid. So even though the US spent 0.16% of its GDP on foreign aid, its 9 times more generous than Denmark, who spent $2 billion and 0.84% of GDP on aid.

Don't believe my numbers, check them out yourself

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelate ... =d2004#oda

Oh, and the US is nearly 8 times more generous than Canada, by your reasoning. So I guess we can knock off all this nonsense about Canada being a more compassionate society than the US, since, in total dollars, the US spends more on social assistance than Canada does, as opposed to per capita arguments.

Bootlegga, I look forward to you refuting the arguments in future threads criticizing the stinginess of US foreign aid or US social spending.

   

Avro,



We agree on loads but differ on politics. You are no liberal friendly person to be sure but at least I don't see the absolute anti-liberal hate that spews from people like braindeadprairietoy.

Loads of those conservatives have attacked me for my "anti-Xtian" hate and called me a bigot. Even my atheist mates called me on it but I've yet to see any of the hard core conservatives bat an eye at anti-liberal bigottry. I guess its OK when their clan does it eh?

   

That Australians comment,is not worth the air he used to spout his rhetoric. Australia, UK and America all have War Criminals as leaders and they should be dealt with accordingly under international law.

   

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