Canada’s Health Care System Cannot Survive Mass Immigration
hwacker @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:06 am
Universal, free, two year waiting list
Canada’s Health Care System Cannot Survive Mass Immigration
By Tim Murray Sunday, March 23, 2008
A cynic might characterize Canada’s medicare system as the universal, free, democratic and egalitarian access to a two-year waiting list. You jump the queue only if you have the bucks and the referral to jump over the 49th, unless a life-threatening emergency sends you to the OR.
America’s health care system, on the other hand is discriminatory and expensive, but it offers immediate access to the best medical treatment in the world.
In both cases timely care for everyone is an elusive goal.
In any event Michael Moore’s take on Canada is superficial, euphoric and unrealistic. New technology, abuse and the insatiable demands of an ever expanding clientele of elderly relatives sponsored by Third World immigrants is breaking the bank. It has been calculated that each sponsored immigrant in that age group will cost the Australian medical system $250,000. Since roughly 75% of Canadian immigrants and refugees, drawn from largely “non-traditional” sources, in fact consist of their unskilled dependent children, a terrifying portrait of the toll that Canadian immigration policy is taking on medicare could no doubt be drawn.
A recent article featured in the London Free Press (Thursday, March 13, 2008 “Hospitals forecast deficits”) recognized population growth as one principal reason why the Canadian health system was on the brink of deficit financing, with half of Ontario’s hospitals facing service cuts to meet the legal requirement for a balanced budget. Seventy percent of Canada’s population growth is driven by immigration.
It was economist Milton Friedman who commented a decade ago that “It’s just obvious that you can’t have free immigration and a welfare state.” As Robert Rector explained, to be properly understood, Friedman’s observation should be viewed as applicable to the entire redistributive system of benefits, subsidies and services that lower income groups disproportionately enjoy at the expense of higher income groups.
Unfortunately, this superstructure of benefits and services rests not only on an economic foundation but a cultural one as well. A people that is very much alike is more inclined to trust one another, and this trust translates into a willingness to vote for redistributive policies. But we are no longer a mostly ethnically homogeneous society with a shared respect for institutions and a shared sense of civic obligation. When a significant portion of the population is from another hemisphere, another culture or even another generation with different values, the welfare state is perceived as an unlocked candy store with services to be exploited to the maximum.
Redistributive policies like medicare are inversely correlated to cultural diversity. Rather than confront this reality, Canadian leftists demand yet more financial IV injections into the morbid body of the health care system. They refuse to acknowledge that even the Swedish Social Democrats, their role models, were forced to discover the “Laffer curve”. That is, push the tax rate up beyond a certain level and tax revenues fall in response. Tax payers will not keep working and producing if they can’t keep enough of their income. There are limits to what can be funded.
The Canadian model is not sustainable. It works only if there is enough public money to fund it and not enough patients with doctors to help them abuse it.
Those days are gone forever.
[url=http://]http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2320[/url]
Benoit @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:29 am
hwacker hwacker:
Redistributive policies like medicare are inversely correlated to cultural diversity. Rather than confront this reality, Canadian leftists demand yet more financial IV injections into the morbid body of the health care system. They refuse to acknowledge that even the Swedish Social Democrats, their role models, were forced to discover the “Laffer curve”. That is, push the tax rate up beyond a certain level and tax revenues fall in response. Tax payers will not keep working and producing if they can’t keep enough of their income. There are limits to what can be funded.
The tax rate that maximizes government revenues is certainly higher in a society with a lot of new immigrants than in an old bourgeois society because new immigrants have seen too much misery first hand to be obsessed with hoarding money.
hwacker @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:37 am
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Redistributive policies like medicare are inversely correlated to cultural diversity. Rather than confront this reality, Canadian leftists demand yet more financial IV injections into the morbid body of the health care system. They refuse to acknowledge that even the Swedish Social Democrats, their role models, were forced to discover the “Laffer curve”. That is, push the tax rate up beyond a certain level and tax revenues fall in response. Tax payers will not keep working and producing if they can’t keep enough of their income. There are limits to what can be funded.
The tax rate that maximizes government revenues is certainly higher in a society with a lot of new immigrants than in an old bourgeois society because new immigrants have seen to much misery first hand to be obsessed with hoarding money.
I guess you missed the point of "Family Reunification Program" where shitload's of old people come that never paid $0.01 into Canada and get the same health care as you and I.
That program has to stop and now.
Brenda @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:47 am
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Redistributive policies like medicare are inversely correlated to cultural diversity. Rather than confront this reality, Canadian leftists demand yet more financial IV injections into the morbid body of the health care system. They refuse to acknowledge that even the Swedish Social Democrats, their role models, were forced to discover the “Laffer curve”. That is, push the tax rate up beyond a certain level and tax revenues fall in response. Tax payers will not keep working and producing if they can’t keep enough of their income. There are limits to what can be funded.
The tax rate that maximizes government revenues is certainly higher in a society with a lot of new immigrants than in an old bourgeois society because new immigrants have seen to much misery first hand to be obsessed with hoarding money.
Ehmmm, I am a new immigrant, and I can't recall me seeing too much misery?
I think you need to learn a couple of things about the immigration system. A lot of people come in as skilled worker (like I did). Apply for your visa, pay the fees, pay for you medicals, and get a job, and live like any other Canadian.
Then, there is the family class, that I strongly object to. You have a family member sponsor you, you pay a little fee, and get in. Your family member is supposed to stand guardian for you for 10 years. In the meantime, there is no need for you to get a job, learn the language or whatsoever. There is no need for you to pay taxes either, because you don't need a job, right? Yet, you get everything a born and raised Canadian gets. When you do something wrong, your family member can pay up...
I don't think that is fair, and I think it should change. The family class system should get a real change, although I was told not too long ago, that they want more family-reunions
Benoit @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:52 am
hwacker hwacker:
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Redistributive policies like medicare are inversely correlated to cultural diversity. Rather than confront this reality, Canadian leftists demand yet more financial IV injections into the morbid body of the health care system. They refuse to acknowledge that even the Swedish Social Democrats, their role models, were forced to discover the “Laffer curve”. That is, push the tax rate up beyond a certain level and tax revenues fall in response. Tax payers will not keep working and producing if they can’t keep enough of their income. There are limits to what can be funded.
The tax rate that maximizes government revenues is certainly higher in a society with a lot of new immigrants than in an old bourgeois society because new immigrants have seen to much misery first hand to be obsessed with hoarding money.
I guess you missed the point of "Family Reunification Program" where shitload's of old people come that never paid $0.01 into Canada and get the same health care as you and I.
That program has to stop and now.
This program will get new young immigrants into nursing and medicine professions.
Brenda @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:04 am
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Redistributive policies like medicare are inversely correlated to cultural diversity. Rather than confront this reality, Canadian leftists demand yet more financial IV injections into the morbid body of the health care system. They refuse to acknowledge that even the Swedish Social Democrats, their role models, were forced to discover the “Laffer curve”. That is, push the tax rate up beyond a certain level and tax revenues fall in response. Tax payers will not keep working and producing if they can’t keep enough of their income. There are limits to what can be funded.
The tax rate that maximizes government revenues is certainly higher in a society with a lot of new immigrants than in an old bourgeois society because new immigrants have seen to much misery first hand to be obsessed with hoarding money.
I guess you missed the point of "Family Reunification Program" where shitload's of old people come that never paid $0.01 into Canada and get the same health care as you and I.
That program has to stop and now.
This program will get new young immigrants into nursing and medicine professions.
No it won't.
PNP programs will do that. That is a different program. PNP (Provincial Nominee Program) will get you (as a future immigrant) a Work Permit, and with that, you can apply for PR the fast route. But you need the WP, and that makes workers (young immigrants) work at the place they are needed. A family reunification program adds nothing.
Benoit @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:15 am
Brenda Brenda:
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Redistributive policies like medicare are inversely correlated to cultural diversity. Rather than confront this reality, Canadian leftists demand yet more financial IV injections into the morbid body of the health care system. They refuse to acknowledge that even the Swedish Social Democrats, their role models, were forced to discover the “Laffer curve”. That is, push the tax rate up beyond a certain level and tax revenues fall in response. Tax payers will not keep working and producing if they can’t keep enough of their income. There are limits to what can be funded.
The tax rate that maximizes government revenues is certainly higher in a society with a lot of new immigrants than in an old bourgeois society because new immigrants have seen to much misery first hand to be obsessed with hoarding money.
I guess you missed the point of "Family Reunification Program" where shitload's of old people come that never paid $0.01 into Canada and get the same health care as you and I.
That program has to stop and now.
This program will get new young immigrants into nursing and medicine professions.
No it won't.
PNP programs will do that. That is a different program. PNP (Provincial Nominee Program) will get you (as a future immigrant) a Work Permit, and with that, you can apply for PR the fast route. But you need the WP, and that makes workers (young immigrants) work at the place they are needed. A family reunification program adds nothing.
A work permit doesn't give anyone the motivation to work, a family can.
Brenda @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:23 am
Benoit Benoit:
Brenda Brenda:
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Redistributive policies like medicare are inversely correlated to cultural diversity. Rather than confront this reality, Canadian leftists demand yet more financial IV injections into the morbid body of the health care system. They refuse to acknowledge that even the Swedish Social Democrats, their role models, were forced to discover the “Laffer curve”. That is, push the tax rate up beyond a certain level and tax revenues fall in response. Tax payers will not keep working and producing if they can’t keep enough of their income. There are limits to what can be funded.
The tax rate that maximizes government revenues is certainly higher in a society with a lot of new immigrants than in an old bourgeois society because new immigrants have seen to much misery first hand to be obsessed with hoarding money.
I guess you missed the point of "Family Reunification Program" where shitload's of old people come that never paid $0.01 into Canada and get the same health care as you and I.
That program has to stop and now.
This program will get new young immigrants into nursing and medicine professions.
No it won't.
PNP programs will do that. That is a different program. PNP (Provincial Nominee Program) will get you (as a future immigrant) a Work Permit, and with that, you can apply for PR the fast route. But you need the WP, and that makes workers (young immigrants) work at the place they are needed. A family reunification program adds nothing.
A work permit doesn't give anyone the motivation to work, a family can.
I think you miss the point. People who apply for a WP want to be in Canada, want to work here. People who just are being brought here by family might not.
A WP is a choice, don't forget that.
Benoit @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:28 am
Brenda Brenda:
Benoit Benoit:
Brenda Brenda:
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Benoit Benoit:
hwacker hwacker:
Redistributive policies like medicare are inversely correlated to cultural diversity. Rather than confront this reality, Canadian leftists demand yet more financial IV injections into the morbid body of the health care system. They refuse to acknowledge that even the Swedish Social Democrats, their role models, were forced to discover the “Laffer curve”. That is, push the tax rate up beyond a certain level and tax revenues fall in response. Tax payers will not keep working and producing if they can’t keep enough of their income. There are limits to what can be funded.
The tax rate that maximizes government revenues is certainly higher in a society with a lot of new immigrants than in an old bourgeois society because new immigrants have seen to much misery first hand to be obsessed with hoarding money.
I guess you missed the point of "Family Reunification Program" where shitload's of old people come that never paid $0.01 into Canada and get the same health care as you and I.
That program has to stop and now.
This program will get new young immigrants into nursing and medicine professions.
No it won't.
PNP programs will do that. That is a different program. PNP (Provincial Nominee Program) will get you (as a future immigrant) a Work Permit, and with that, you can apply for PR the fast route. But you need the WP, and that makes workers (young immigrants) work at the place they are needed. A family reunification program adds nothing.
A work permit doesn't give anyone the motivation to work, a family can.
I think you miss the point. People who apply for a WP want to be in Canada, want to work here. People who just are being brought here by family might not.
A WP is a choice, don't forget that.
First, people want to escape the living conditions in their countries of origin and second, they want to be in Canada because our country has a good (i.e caring) reputation.
CommanderSock @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:29 am
Hwacker have you been to Mississauga? I think you're wrong on everything regarding immigration. Go to Mississauga, drive through the neighborhoods, then come back and talk shit about immigrants, please do.
Brenda @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:36 am
Benoit Benoit:
Brenda Brenda:
I think you miss the point. People who apply for a WP want to be in Canada, want to work here. People who just are being brought here by family might not.
A WP is a choice, don't forget that.
First, people want to escape the living conditions in their country of origin and second, they want to be in Canada because our country has a good (i.e caring) reputation.
I am glad you know the reasons why I left Holland. Generalization at its best again.
FYI, the health care system here is worse than what I am used to. Far more expensive, and I am glad. You know why? Because now I can pay for what I need, not for what anybody else uses.
Canada might have a "caring" reputation, but, and I am gonna be very blunt here, so I hope I don't kick anybody in the groin, Canada is at least 20 years behind of what I know in a lot of ways. For me, that is a good thing. For others, Canada might be 20 years ahead of what they know.
Canada is not a holy country, don't make it that. Emigrating is a choice, and people who are dragged to Canada by family, haven't made that choice themselves, but they made that choice because of the bias of their relatives. There is a huge difference in that.
Don't pamper. Tough love always works better. It makes for less spoiled brats.
*edited because of wrong quotes*
Benoit @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:38 am
CommanderSock CommanderSock:
Hwacker have you been to Mississauga? I think you're wrong on everything regarding immigration. Go to Mississauga, drive through the neighborhoods, then come back and talk shit about immigrants, please do.
Hwacker is only copying Tim Murray.
Brenda @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:38 am
CommanderSock CommanderSock:
Hwacker have you been to Mississauga? I think you're wrong on everything regarding immigration. Go to Mississauga, drive through the neighborhoods, then come back and talk shit about immigrants, please do.
It is not about immigrants, it is about the system. Difference.
kenmore @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:43 am
immigrants come here because of the system.. they come from countrys that have no health care and in most cases sqawler and they come here get free health care and welfare.. which is a step up from living off the land... lets tell it like it is.. they are coming here for fuck the country over.. get what they can and steal the rest.. its time to let politicians know that we want this system changed... ... forgive me if i am less than politically correct.. but I am sick of this shit..
CommanderSock @ Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:44 am
So Brenda? What's wrong with the system?