Free Trade vs. Protectionism (which is better)
Darkseid @ Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:43 pm
Free trade is garbage. If people really want free trade, then they care nothing about their own people nor their own country.
Look at America right now, America has become so dependable on China due to the Global Market that we cannot defend ourselves if they decide to invade. We would be so crushed economically if we oppose them that we will likely kill each other off in the recession. We are also economically tied to the Middle East due to our dependence on oil.
Right now America is about to hit a recession because we are going too global with our economics.
The Free Market DOES NOT WORK! It is too unrestrictive. When you leave something unrestrictive it will have a run-on effect and will go overboard one way or another. Things need to have some lenth of restrictions or limitations or otherwise you'll end up like Russia with a Mafia-Controlled State or the United States, which is breaking apart due to its close ties with China and Saudi Arabia. Do you want Canada to bear the same fate?
SigPig @ Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:52 pm
i agree that NAFTA in particular hurt the canadian economy and tied us more to the united states. sure we have a trade surplus each year but we lost thousands of jobs to them when that agreement came into effect.
it was no longer possible for canadian manufacturing firms to compete, or economical for US firms that were here to maintain their branch plants if they could send it north to us from the states cheaply.
trade does have its benefits but i would support a move back to more protectionist measures like were in place for the first 130 years of our existence with some beneficial trade arrangements that saw us have less ties to the US economy.
Clogeroo @ Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:19 pm
$1:
The Free Market DOES NOT WORK!
You scare me.
Darkseid @ Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:57 pm
SigPig SigPig:
i agree that NAFTA in particular hurt the canadian economy and tied us more to the united states. sure we have a trade surplus each year but we lost thousands of jobs to them when that agreement came into effect.
it was no longer possible for canadian manufacturing firms to compete, or economical for US firms that were here to maintain their branch plants if they could send it north to us from the states cheaply.
trade does have its benefits but i would support a move back to more protectionist measures like were in place for the first 130 years of our existence with some beneficial trade arrangements that saw us have less ties to the US economy.
it was no longer possible for canadian manufacturing firms to compete, or economical for US firms that were here to maintain their branch plants if they could send it north to us from the states cheaply.
trade does have its benefits but i would support a move back to more protectionist measures like were in place for the first 130 years of our existence with some beneficial trade arrangements that saw us have less ties to the US economy.
Everything at one end of a spectrum tends to have its ups and downs. Usually the downs will inevitably kick in and destroy you, it is just a matter of time when. Living in a Free Market is like living at your own risk on the Titanic. Sure the Titanic is a marvel and many would surely benefit from investing in it, since it was so revolutionary back it's time. But then you have that iceberg coming your way and just like that its own going down to the bottom of the sea. That's the same principle when it comes to the Free Market.
kenmore @ Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:00 pm
it is the US that is protectionist.... free trade means they are free to do what they want .. screw Canada and Mexico....
Daovonnaex @ Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:05 pm
Darkseid Darkseid:
Free trade is garbage. If people really want free trade, then they care nothing about their own people nor their own country.
Look at America right now, America has become so dependable on China due to the Global Market that we cannot defend ourselves if they decide to invade. We would be so crushed economically if we oppose them that we will likely kill each other off in the recession.
Our large trade deficit is not the result of free trade. While easing trade barriers will obviously increase the volume of trade--let's get something straight here: a trade deficit results when a nation consumes more than it produces. Our trade deficit is therefore the result of Americans saving too little money, the causes of which are reckless fiscal (budget deficits) and monetary (high money supply growth) policy.
Structural disadvantages are also responsible for America's industrial decline. Pension, healthcare, and tort costs in the United States are all outrageous, and the educational system is simply awful. Additionally, since about 1973, infrastructure has been underinvested in.
One negative thing that globalization has done is to dramatically slow wage growth, as global capital to labor ratios dropped dramatically with the integrations of billions of people with little to no physical capital in the global economy. These people can catch up faster to our standard of living if we trade with them and allow them to learn directly from FDI. The question over whether or not you want to allow this is a simple one of nationalism.
Your point? The US consumes 20 billion barrels of oil per year and only produces 9 billion. How do you propose to make up this shortfall?
Do you know anything about how business cycles work?
Look at America right now, America has become so dependable on China due to the Global Market that we cannot defend ourselves if they decide to invade. We would be so crushed economically if we oppose them that we will likely kill each other off in the recession.
Our large trade deficit is not the result of free trade. While easing trade barriers will obviously increase the volume of trade--let's get something straight here: a trade deficit results when a nation consumes more than it produces. Our trade deficit is therefore the result of Americans saving too little money, the causes of which are reckless fiscal (budget deficits) and monetary (high money supply growth) policy.
Structural disadvantages are also responsible for America's industrial decline. Pension, healthcare, and tort costs in the United States are all outrageous, and the educational system is simply awful. Additionally, since about 1973, infrastructure has been underinvested in.
One negative thing that globalization has done is to dramatically slow wage growth, as global capital to labor ratios dropped dramatically with the integrations of billions of people with little to no physical capital in the global economy. These people can catch up faster to our standard of living if we trade with them and allow them to learn directly from FDI. The question over whether or not you want to allow this is a simple one of nationalism.
Darkseid Darkseid:
We are also economically tied to the Middle East due to our dependence on oil.
Your point? The US consumes 20 billion barrels of oil per year and only produces 9 billion. How do you propose to make up this shortfall?
Darkseid Darkseid:
Right now America is
about to hit a recession because we are going too global with our economics.
about to hit a recession because we are going too global with our economics.
Do you know anything about how business cycles work?
Darkseid Darkseid:
The Free Market DOES NOT WORK! It is too unrestrictive. When you leave something unrestrictive it will have a run-on effect and will go overboard one way or another. Things need to have some lenth of restrictions or limitations or otherwise you'll end up like Russia with a Mafia-Controlled State or the United States, which is breaking apart due to its close ties with China and Saudi Arabia. Do you want Canada to bear the same fate?
How exactly are China and Saudi Arabia breaking up the United States? I would think that illegal immigration has a much greater chance of breaking up this country.
Free trade vs. protectionism is silly in a way. Obviously everyone is better off if free trade is practiced, but any one country can theoretically benefit from intelligent forms of protectionism--the free rider problem. Canada could, for instance, establish an export monopoly on oil and gas, with the Canadian government as the only purchaser of oil and gas for export in Canada. This would lower the price of oil and gas domestically, which would make Canada more industrially competitive. However, the US could then retaliate by levying tariffs on Canadian goods, and then everyone would be worse off.
dog77_1999 @ Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:00 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
dog77_1999 dog77_1999:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
dog77_1999 dog77_1999:
Free trade is better because it allows a country to specialize in what it can do best. Resources are allocated more efficiently resulting in a better lifestlye than otherwise attainable.
I'll get the word out to all the increasingly crowded homeless shelters and children living in poverty . . .
Fair trade is better than Free trade - too bad we haven't tried ether yet.
And I look at Canada's unemployment rate and see that there are jobs that need to be filled. You may have to move and go into a different industry, but they are their.
And tell the homeless that there is work out in Alberta for them.
Though I suspect they won't go. At least in Houston, 9/10 homeless people chose to stay homeless and beg rather than earn a honest day's pay.
So (being in Edmonton) what do we tell the homeless here, who have jobs+kids and no where to live? Go to Houston?
Hmm, don't know. Perhaps get a place to live? Cut back on expenses? I mean, I went a whole year eating nothing but pasta, Ramen, and peanut butter sandwhiches. All very cheap to. And since there is universal health care up in Canada, you won't have to worry about insurance. Hmm, you can certainly make alot of money working on the rigs, and while rent is more expensive, you still are getting money. So they need to find a higher paying job that can support their lifestyle (kids) or tighten their belt.
Of course, we are talking about those who lost their jobs to free trade, not the homeless who didn't lose their jobs.
tritium @ Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:48 pm
dog77_1999 dog77_1999:
Free trade is better because it allows a country to specialize in what it can do best. Resources are allocated more efficiently resulting in a better lifestlye than otherwise attainable.
Let me play the devil's advocate here.
"better lifestlye" - So when a factory in B.C. or Ontario that was paying $27 to $35 per hour and is closed up and replaced with unskill labor that pays $8hr, this is a better lifestlye.
1995 - 2008 has been the largest transfer of wealth in the history of man kind. Buying oil from the middle east and manufactured goods from Asia (China).
Not saying that NAFTA or Free Trade is bad, however I would like to see unlimited trade between the U.S. and Canada, which includes Good & Services and free movement of people (an NAU, without Mexico) - any other country such as China, EU countries, add tariffs.