Young adults have a right to be up in arms
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cougar @ Thu May 03, 2012 6:31 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
More importantly though, it's also the fault of younger generations who don't bother to vote - if the majority of them actually spoke up at election time, public policy would probably be vastly different.
I doubt it. It is time for fighting. Voting does not work!
Alta_redneck @ Thu May 03, 2012 6:41 pm
Scape Scape:
Baby Boomers got a sweet deal, no one else will get the ride they got.
Maybe my brain isn't working up to snuff cause I worked my ass off to have what I have today, so could you remind me what this sweet deal consisted of?
I can remember getting a bit of a subsidy on my power bill for awhile when Ralph deregulated the electricity industry in AB.
Oh, and I can remember getting a 2 or 3% lower interest rate on my mortgage when they were up around 24% back in the 80's.
Is there something else I'm missing?
CDN_PATRIOT @ Thu May 03, 2012 6:44 pm
cougar cougar:
bootlegga bootlegga:
More importantly though, it's also the fault of younger generations who don't bother to vote - if the majority of them actually spoke up at election time, public policy would probably be vastly different.
I doubt it. It is time for fighting. Voting does not work!
Voting works when you actually go out and vote. Fighting accomplishes little else than the destruction of someone's property. These kids want respect? Fine. Act like adults and work your problems out diplomatically. Any moron can smash a window.
-J.
Brenda @ Thu May 03, 2012 6:45 pm
CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
cougar cougar:
bootlegga bootlegga:
More importantly though, it's also the fault of younger generations who don't bother to vote - if the majority of them actually spoke up at election time, public policy would probably be vastly different.
I doubt it. It is time for fighting. Voting does not work!
Voting works when you actually go out and vote. Fighting accomplishes little else than the destruction of someone's property. These kids want respect? Fine. Act like adults and work your problems out diplomatically. Any moron can smash a window.
-J.
Which would only increase the cost of insurance policies...
Robair @ Thu May 03, 2012 8:46 pm
Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:
Is there something else I'm missing?
Yes.Getting up to speed, if you're interested, will require reading.
You could start with this thread.
OnTheIce @ Fri May 04, 2012 5:16 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
Degrees you might consider "bozo degrees" aren't necessarily such. They are just not an endpoint, but rather a midway point for most people.
I fully agree that it's not society's job to rescue people who take a BA/BSc and then have trouble finding a job - it's up to them to do what it takes to find a job in the field they want.
I used my BA to get into a Master's program and took half a dozen "skills" courses (like graphic design) on my own time (and dime) as well to get the job I wanted. Work is out there for people willing to put in the effort to continue learning.
One of the biggest problems is that many people still think like the Boomers did - I'll graduate from university and never step foot in a classroom again. In a knowledge economy like ours, most people need to constantly train and upgrade skills to take advantage of new techniques, technologies, etc. - which means committing to lifelong learning - not stopping at in your mid-20s after university.
I don't think Thanos has a problem with BA's as a stepping stone, rather those with a BA in 'Basket Weaving' that expect to walk off the steps of the school and get a job.
The rest of your post is bang on. Education doesn't stop, you have to keep expanding on your skills especially as our economy is changing.
Zipperfish @ Fri May 04, 2012 5:41 am
Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:
Maybe my brain isn't working up to snuff cause I worked my ass off to have what I have today, so could you remind me what this sweet deal consisted of?
I can remember getting a bit of a subsidy on my power bill for awhile when Ralph deregulated the electricity industry in AB.
Oh, and I can remember getting a 2 or 3% lower interest rate on my mortgage when they were up around 24% back in the 80's.
Is there something else I'm missing?
Sounds like you missed the 60s.
Zipperfish @ Fri May 04, 2012 5:42 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
I don't think Thanos has a problem with BA's as a stepping stone, rather those with a BA in 'Basket Weaving' that expect to walk off the steps of the school and get a job.
The rest of your post is bang on. Education doesn't stop, you have to keep expanding on your skills especially as our economy is changing.
Awesome graphic! Good points too.
martin14 @ Fri May 04, 2012 6:46 am
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:
Maybe my brain isn't working up to snuff cause I worked my ass off to have what I have today, so could you remind me what this sweet deal consisted of?
I can remember getting a bit of a subsidy on my power bill for awhile when Ralph deregulated the electricity industry in AB.
Oh, and I can remember getting a 2 or 3% lower interest rate on my mortgage when they were up around 24% back in the 80's.
Is there something else I'm missing?
Sounds like you missed the 60s.
Hey, if you can remember the 60's, you weren't really there.
ShepherdsDog @ Fri May 04, 2012 6:56 am
I was 3 years and 3 weeks of age when they ended. My biggest accomplishment was likely wearing big boy undies full time
bootlegga @ Fri May 04, 2012 8:02 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Technical and trade schools don't teach the ability to think critically, communicate effectively via the written word and be a well-rounded learner.
First, what do you mean by 'think critically'? I've been hearing this for ages and I never get a consistent answer from anyone as to what this means. I've also noticed over the years that 'critical thinking' is valued most amongst people who don't know the difference between a slotted or a Phillips head screwdriver.
And what do you mean about technical schools not teaching people how to communicate? Unlike liberal colleges words actually have meanings in trade schools and spelling is of grave importance given that when you're teaching someone to be an electrician he has to know there's no 'interpretation' or 'equally valid opinion' on what electrical notation means. It's also irrelevant how someone 'feels' about electrical notation.
220v is not 220MW which is also not 220amp. Period. If that hurts anyone's feelings then boo-hoo.
So don't tell me the trade schools don't teach people how to communicate when they absolutely do.
Now this thing about being a 'well rounded learner'?
I dealt with that BS at Northwestern. I wanted a degree in Network Technologies and when I first spoke to their admissions folks they told me that I needed to take a bunch of horseshit classes that had FA to do with my course of study. I did not care a whit about multicultural studies (still don't) and I did not care to study Literature nor Art and I was not interested in Phys.Ed. after years of morning PT.
To their credit they ended up giving me what I wanted and that was the core classes I needed for a BS degree (lol, yes, I know) absent two years of utterly unrelated classes.
This is part of why private trade schools have been hurting traditional universities is because the trade schools teach you what you need and send you on your way. Get in, get out, get a job and skip the indoctrination and brainwashing.
Note the bolded text - I said via the written word, not communications in general...
Perhaps technical and trade schools must be very different in the US - because up here they spend the vast majority of the curriculum teaching them how to complete a task - be it plumbing, bricklaying, welding, or whatever. Trade schools up here spend a semester or two on teaching students to communicate via writing - even then when compared to the overall course weight, it's negligible.
Why? Because a plumber or a bricklayer or a welder usually doesn't need to know how to write an annual report or draft business communications like marketing, advertising, HR documentation, etc. When they do, they usually hire someone to do it for them - either as a subcontractor or as an employee.
It's gradually changing, but when stacked up to a BA, the time spent on learning to write in most trade/technical schools is next to nothing. Almost every course I had in my BA involved writing and lots of it - be it group projects and assignments or even essay questions on exams. As an Arts student, I regularly read HUNDREDS of pages a week (from both course texts and extra "recommended" reading), and then used that as citations in papers I wrote. I often read a book or two (outside of recommended texts) a week to find support for my arguments in papers I wrote.
The difference is that BAs and BScs are designed to give a student a good overall education, while trade schools teach very focussed skills. I don't think for a second that a BA is superior to a trades diploma, but I do recognize there is a vast difference in the two and that both are necessary for modern society to function.
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Unlike liberal colleges words actually have meanings in trade schools and spelling is of grave importance given that when you're teaching someone to be an electrician he has to know there's no 'interpretation' or 'equally valid opinion' on what electrical notation means. It's also irrelevant how someone 'feels' about electrical notation.
220v is not 220MW which is also not 220amp. Period. If that hurts anyone's feelings then boo-hoo.
220v is not 220MW which is also not 220amp. Period. If that hurts anyone's feelings then boo-hoo.
Actually, liberal colleges would never teach that there is an "equally valid opinion" about an absolute like that. It's a common misconception, just like history is all about memorizing dates (history is actually all about knowing why events are important and what were their causes and effects, not just memorizing when they happened). FYI, most arts programs include a decent component of science courses - math, biology, chemistry, physics, computer science, etc. - usually between 3-6 courses (depending on the university), which can up to almost an entire of semester of your four year degree (usually 8 semesters at 5 courses each).
Instead they might ask a student to read a book like Daniel Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans (a great but horrifying read) and compare it to recent episodes of genocide (maybe like Darfur or Saddam's genocide against his own citizens) and ask questions about how the two events compare. Are they similar? If so, why is it? If not, why not? Now write a 10-20 page paper detailing your argument. BTW, that's worth 30% of your final grade.
Tied into that...
$1:
Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness.
http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/d ... inking/766
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Now this thing about being a 'well rounded learner'?
Well, a typical art program like I took makes the student take a second language, several courses in Fine Arts, hard Sciences, Social Sciences, Humanities, etc. For example, I took courses in German, Japanese, classical music (despite my lack of any musical ability), industrial design, computer programming, statistics, zoology, sociology, psychology, philosophy, as well as lots of courses in my major (history) and a half dozen or so in my minor (Political Science).
Call me crazy, but I'd say that's a fairly well-rounded education.
bootlegga @ Fri May 04, 2012 8:12 am
cougar cougar:
bootlegga bootlegga:
More importantly though, it's also the fault of younger generations who don't bother to vote - if the majority of them actually spoke up at election time, public policy would probably be vastly different.
I doubt it. It is time for fighting. Voting does not work!
Sure it does - youth voting sucks. It's hard to bitch about a lack of representation when 38.8% of youth vote compared to about 75% of seniors.
Youth voting;
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2011/11/24/cana ... l-turnout/
Seniors voting;
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le1954372/
If young people want a voice, then they need to vote - it's that simple.
bootlegga @ Fri May 04, 2012 8:13 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Degrees you might consider "bozo degrees" aren't necessarily such. They are just not an endpoint, but rather a midway point for most people.
I fully agree that it's not society's job to rescue people who take a BA/BSc and then have trouble finding a job - it's up to them to do what it takes to find a job in the field they want.
I used my BA to get into a Master's program and took half a dozen "skills" courses (like graphic design) on my own time (and dime) as well to get the job I wanted. Work is out there for people willing to put in the effort to continue learning.
One of the biggest problems is that many people still think like the Boomers did - I'll graduate from university and never step foot in a classroom again. In a knowledge economy like ours, most people need to constantly train and upgrade skills to take advantage of new techniques, technologies, etc. - which means committing to lifelong learning - not stopping at in your mid-20s after university.
I don't think Thanos has a problem with BA's as a stepping stone, rather those with a BA in 'Basket Weaving' that expect to walk off the steps of the school and get a job.
The rest of your post is bang on. Education doesn't stop, you have to keep expanding on your skills especially as our economy is changing.
Awesome graphic!
My own experiences are why I'd prefer the government spend more on helping people get better educated and/or trained instead of raising the minimum wage (as AndyT has suggested numerous times).
If people are willing to work hard and keep on learning, the sky's the limit for their career - if they think they can just get any degree and then live on easy street, they're going to be sorely mistaken.
Alta_redneck @ Fri May 04, 2012 8:15 am
Robair Robair:
Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:
Is there something else I'm missing?
Yes.Getting up to speed, if you're interested, will require reading.
You could start with this thread.
I've read the thread, about the only thing I saw was the part of only paying 15% of post secondary education that's it. I missed out on that because I wanted instant financial gratification and bought my first house at age 22.
Is there something else I missed out on?
When someone says we got a sweet deal, I want them to take me by the hand and point it out.
Lemmy @ Fri May 04, 2012 8:19 am
Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:
When someone says we got a sweet deal, I want them to take me by the hand and point it out.
okie dokie
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