Blasphemy or Freedom of expression?
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VitaminC @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:51 pm
hamiltonguyo hamiltonguyo:
the line is where it is artfully and creatively done and where the expression fits he view trying to be expressed.
Muslims are free to attack the west but not for us to attack them? we should not sacrifice rights unless they sacrifice the same. If we give up the right to free press which can criticise them then they should give up their rights to criticise us.
Muslims are free to attack the west but not for us to attack them? we should not sacrifice rights unless they sacrifice the same. If we give up the right to free press which can criticise them then they should give up their rights to criticise us.
But they are not free to attack us.....Iran will be referred to the U.N. Security council in part because their President said Israel should be wiped off the planet........And I agree that they should be taken to the Security Council.....
But we lose our moral authority to say it is not acceptable to say "jews don't have the right to exist".....when we say it is ok to mock Islam....
It's like if someone gets into a confrontation with a police officer. People have the right to call them pigs, but its stupid to do because it just escalates the situation....instead of improving the situation....
I definately agree that newspapers do and should have the right to mock religions.....
But it is stupid to do it at this place the world is in.....and now people might die for it....but if they hadn't done it those people would not be about to die.........It's just plain stupid to poke someone in the eye when you're trying to make friends with them...
hamiltonguyo @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:00 pm
individual Iranians are free to criticize us. The state is free but when they start proposing genocide as state policy it has become an international security matter. The best thing to do with the current newspaper articles would have been for Danish officials to apologize for the actions of citizens and to explain that however much you may regret them saying what they did they have the freedom to be idiots as long as they arn't being overtly hostile.
The general public on the street in muslim countries are allowed to mock the west.
Westerners are allowed to mock anyone.
Governments are suppossed to be civilized and offer structured criticisms and suggestions and are supposed toapologize when citizens use their rights to make asses of themselves.
TheGup @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:03 pm
Just wondering...have there been any Canadian reactions?
From the government? Any media showing these pictures in solidarity with Europe?
kerfuffled @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:04 pm
VitaminC VitaminC:
kerfuffled kerfuffled:
Everything you say here may be correct, but reality kills your theory quicker than a suicide vest. Even just a cursory look at the Koran will show anyone that muslims are instructed to kill and eradicate anything or anyone who is not a believer as set out in the Koran. That is the root of all of this hoopla. It is the reason behind the cartoons, and it is the reason behind the response from the muslim world. Do what I say or I will kill you. Here you are saying we shouldn't piss them off, yet they have no problem sending of their kids to learn how to be a suicide bomber or cheering when thousands of people are killed in terrorist attacks. Or killing thousands of their own people. That cartoon doesn't represent the whole European community, but the European community values the right to free speech. That cartoon might be offensive to muslims but lets face it, they didn't put that bomb in muhamed's turban cuz he is a funny guy. Its because that is the vision that so many westerners have of islam, a bunch of crazy bastards who want to kill and slaughter innocents and themselves in the name of religion. And all those kooks protesting are becoming caricatures of the cartoon itself. It's just perpetuating a stereotype. Or is it a stereotype? 
I don't know, but I do know this, cartoons don't kill people, people kill people. 
I don't know, but I do know this, cartoons don't kill people, people kill people. I think you're right. I think we should have found a way to encourage them to protest this with a boycott. Their initial reaction was a peaceful protest. Instead we found a way to push them over the line from peaceful protest to violent protest.....
And you will also find the same violence towards non-believers in the bible as in the koran.....It's not the religion, it's the intepretation of the religion...
The muslims who believe in extremist interpretations of Islam are pretty much the same as Christians in the not too distant past. We should be encouraging them to take the leap forward into the 21st century, not collectively kicking them in the nuts after some Danish bozos slapped them in the face.
Whats this "we" shit? I didn't ask them to spin out! That is their frickin hang up not mine, got F-all to do with me. Yet they and apparently you will condemn me and lump me in with the "we" group because guess what? "We" are not like them. You won't find me saying "ya, lets kiss their asses so we don't piss them off".
Assclown.
holymoly @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:08 pm
i think these people the ones threating are just crazy i mean yes it is insensitive to dipict there holy figures as "terrorists" but hell if they make fun of jesus or God its no biggy cause we are infidels and we dont matter...
so why would they matter to us? you dont hear about to many christians kills and threating people when they crack comments about jesus 
it is kind of comical tho one guy gets pissed and another until everyone is running down the street with an ak-47 just a different type of world over there i guess
VitaminC @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:10 pm
hamiltonguyo hamiltonguyo:
The general public on the street in muslim countries are allowed to mock the west.
When they mock us on the streets we use it as evidence that they hate us...i.e. burning flags etc.....
When we mock them they use it as evidence that we hate them.....
Its vicious circle that is causing a lot of people in the world to die.....
I'm not in anyway saying that it should be against the law for newspapers to print cartoons.....
I'm saying they are stupid for doing it, and no one should be standing up for them.....
I think if we encouraged the muslims to boycott Danish goods peacefully we might do some good....That is another right we hold dear, the right to peaceful protest...In fact, I am going to join the boycott.....
I will eat no more Danishs.
kerfuffled @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:18 pm
I loves me some freedom pastries!
PS: The only danishes you get in this country will be made, I am sure, by your local baker, grocer, or Tim Hortons, thus your boycott will only hurt your local baked-goods market (:lol:)and not the intended target, who are thousands of miles away, chuckling at your inept response to free speech. Once again the the stereotype is perpetuated.
hamiltonguyo @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:25 pm
VitaminC VitaminC:
hamiltonguyo hamiltonguyo:
The general public on the street in muslim countries are allowed to mock the west.
When they mock us on the streets we use it as evidence that they hate us...i.e. burning flags etc.....
When we mock them they use it as evidence that we hate them.....
Its vicious circle that is causing a lot of people in the world to die.....
I'm not in anyway saying that it should be against the law for newspapers to print cartoons.....
I'm saying they are stupid for doing it, and no one should be standing up for them.....
I think if we encouraged the muslims to boycott Danish goods peacefully we might do some good....That is another right we hold dear, the right to peaceful protest...In fact, I am going to join the boycott.....
I will eat no more Danishs.
just saying we can criticize anyone but the can only mock us. Their governments and religion encourages them to do this. Our religios leaders and government discourage it. It is a few people without common sense who do it over here. Its the general population over there. Why do muslims assume that one westerner represents all. We do not take the opinions of one muslim, we take the opinins of masses of rioting muslims. Theres a difference. Muslims have been lucky we are so understanding and we are so lucky the muslims have bigger fish to fry than us (*cough*israel*cough*).
VitaminC @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:31 pm
hamiltonguyo hamiltonguyo:
Why do muslims assume that one westerner represents all.
Probably for the same reason that you think all muslims have that view.
kerfuffled @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:38 pm
No we just go by the number of them that we see jumping up and down, firing their AK's on the TV.
VitaminC @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:52 pm
kerfuffled kerfuffled:
No we just go by the number of them that we see jumping up and down, firing their AK's on the TV.
And they go by the number of people who support these newspapers...
Tricks @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:59 pm
VitaminC VitaminC:
When we mock them they use it as evidence that we hate them.....
Blue_Nose @ Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:03 pm
Tricks Tricks:
You mock muslims? How dare you! I mock extremists. Little different. When someone runs a plane into a major building and ultimately killing 3000 people. They can stand a little mocking
'They' being all Muslims, on behalf of the extremists.... I'm sure they'd understand the difficulty in singling out the people actually responsible...
VitaminC @ Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:42 am
kerfuffled kerfuffled:
I loves me some freedom pastries!
PS: The only danishes you get in this country will be made, I am sure, by your local baker, grocer, or Tim Hortons, thus your boycott will only hurt your local baked-goods market (:lol:)and not the intended target, who are thousands of miles away, chuckling at your inept response to free speech. Once again the the stereotype is perpetuated.
PS: The only danishes you get in this country will be made, I am sure, by your local baker, grocer, or Tim Hortons, thus your boycott will only hurt your local baked-goods market (:lol:)and not the intended target, who are thousands of miles away, chuckling at your inept response to free speech. Once again the the stereotype is perpetuated.
WTF - First the cartoons, and now they're making false claims about freedom pastries......These Danes are going down........Next time they try to plant a flag in the arctic I hope Stephen Harper sends a whole fleet of ice-breakers at them.....
Wullu @ Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:54 am
Hmmm in our part of the world you have Pat Robertson spouting off a bunch of crap and being ignored again after about 3 days. On the muslim street you have tens of thousands with AKs going bonkers.
I think I see where the tolerance is and where it is not..........
Any situation that has me cheering French and German newspapers is truely Twlight Zone time. Now if only a Canadian paper would have the guts to stand up for the most important concept in the history of humanity. The right to say something that utterly and totally pisses me off. To quote ( not entirely accurately, I can never remember the actual quote ) one the US founding fathers " I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend to my dying breath your right to say it".
Now to go and see if I can find something, anything Danish to buy.
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