Canadian Troops Spending Their Own Money on Equipment
Richard Foot, CanWest News Service
Published: Monday, March 20, 2006
Excerpt:
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - Canada's front line combat troops in Afghanistan may belong to a national army, but much of their clothing and equipment on this mission is privately owned -- paid for out of their own pockets -- because the gear supplied by the military is inadequate, soldiers say.
More than a dozen soldiers, who were interviewed during operations this month north of Kandahar, say the non-shooting equipment issued by the military simply isn't comfortable, strong enough or safe enough for this rugged and dangerous mission.
While their actual uniforms are all military-issue, many soldiers say they spent hundreds, and in some cases thousands, of dollars of their own money on everything from desert boots to ammunition vests before coming to Afghanistan.
"I dropped a grand on gear before I came over here," says one non-commissioned officer with the 1st Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, who asked that his name not be published.
"The stuff the army issues is useless."
While some soldiers do wear their army-issued desert boots, most appear to be wearing their own boots, purchased at a private kit shop back at their base in Edmonton or from mail-order military Web sites. They say the boots handed out by the army are too stiff and heavy for long, multi-day marches over the rugged Afghan terrain.
The army-issued tactical vests -- designed to carry ammunition, grenades, bayonets and other supplies -- are also inadequate, soldiers say. The vests supplied by the army, for example, carry only four magazines of rifle ammunition.
"Whose going to survive on four mags in a firefight?" asks another 1st Battalion soldier. "I carry 10 mags every time I climb out of the LAV [light armoured vehicle]. If we get into a fight with the enemy, four mags aren't going to cut it.
"The army stuff is OK in Canada, but over here your life depends on good gear," he adds.
As a result, most of the troops are wearing a mishmash of privately purchased "tac-vests," boots, rucksacks, cold-weather clothing, and other gear.
Link.
This is due to years of neglect, under-funding by former the Liberal Government towards the Canadian Military.
The new Conservative Government will soon start pumping money into the Military so they can afford the proper equipment they need to get the job done.
SireJoe @ Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:11 am
Well I am certainly not happy how the government has put so little towards the military, even if we are/were considered a peace keeping country, how could that even be established with under equipped soldiers? The fact that the new government is going to put more money to them is a definate good thing. Its just sad that past governments had to let it get this bad, and the fact that it took a war to let the people of Canada really know how bad it was.
the Tac Vest issue, the rest of the stuff in the story is simply more "same old, same old". Some troops hate issued kit and spend their own dough on the Gucci stuff, while others can get by. It's been like that since Centurion was a rank not a tank.
Ask any troop which they would prefer, stuff from 15 years ago or today's kit. Specifically rain gear. Goretex of today or the old green plastic bags? The answer is hands down Goretex. Go back and ask if they would prefer stuff from 25 years ago to stuff from 15 years ago. Don't even get me started on shit like boots. The kit has gotten better, but the jonesing for snivel kit hasn't changed one bit.
The issue of quarters is the same again. Somebody has to stay in the BAT for a while longer, but not them, so make someone else stay in them.
Don't get sucked into the "Government didn't equip us" beef. They did. They did it with kit that was approved and tested by our own people. The problem is (as it always was) that it didn't adapt fast enough and too many chair-borne warriors meddled (based on their vast experience such as from Cyprus in 84 or from UNPROFOR HQ in Zagreb in 93) with the recommedations of the Field Force when asked for their input. That is the real issue, not the fact that Pte Bloggins' "Secret Squirrel Commando Ninja Death Stalker 1001 uses folding can-opener sword/combo" was bought with his own money.
SprCForr SprCForr:
the Tac Vest issue, the rest of the stuff in the story is simply more "same old, same old". Some troops hate issued kit and spend their own dough on the Gucci stuff, while others can get by. It's been like that since Centurion was a rank not a tank.
Ask any troop which they would prefer, stuff from 15 years ago or today's kit. Specifically rain gear. Goretex of today or the old green plastic bags? The answer is hands down Goretex. Go back and ask if they would prefer stuff from 25 years ago to stuff from 15 years ago. Don't even get me started on shit like boots. The kit has gotten better, but the jonesing for snivel kit hasn't changed one bit.
The issue of quarters is the same again. Somebody has to stay in the BAT for a while longer, but not them, so make someone else stay in them.
Don't get sucked into the "Government didn't equip us" beef. They did. They did it with kit that was approved and tested by our own people. The problem is (as it always was) that it didn't adapt fast enough and too many chair-borne warriors meddled (based on their vast experience such as from Cyprus in 84 or from UNPROFOR HQ in Zagreb in 93) with the recommedations of the Field Force when asked for their input. That is the real issue, not the fact that Pte Bloggins' "Secret Squirrel Commando Ninja Death Stalker 1001 uses folding can-opener sword/combo" was bought with his own money.
Wullu @ Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:06 pm
SprCForr SprCForr:
the Tac Vest issue, the rest of the stuff in the story is simply more "same old, same old". Some troops hate issued kit and spend their own dough on the Gucci stuff, while others can get by. It's been like that since Centurion was a rank not a tank.
Ask any troop which they would prefer, stuff from 15 years ago or today's kit. Specifically rain gear. Goretex of today or the old green plastic bags? The answer is hands down Goretex. Go back and ask if they would prefer stuff from 25 years ago to stuff from 15 years ago. Don't even get me started on shit like boots. The kit has gotten better, but the jonesing for snivel kit hasn't changed one bit.
The issue of quarters is the same again. Somebody has to stay in the BAT for a while longer, but not them, so make someone else stay in them.
Don't get sucked into the "Government didn't equip us" beef. They did. They did it with kit that was approved and tested by our own people. The problem is (as it always was) that it didn't adapt fast enough and too many chair-borne warriors meddled (based on their vast experience such as from Cyprus in 84 or from UNPROFOR HQ in Zagreb in 93) with the recommedations of the Field Force when asked for their input. That is the real issue, not the fact that Pte Bloggins' "Secret Squirrel Commando Ninja Death Stalker 1001 uses folding can-opener sword/combo" was bought with his own money.
Exactly!! No different in the Navy. I have always used my own tools, because the tool kits they gave us were put together by supply types who did not understand that electronics techs have very little use for a 3 foot long standard screwdriver (it did make a pretty good pry bar

). You see a pretty wide array of gear for upperdeck watches none of which the navy issued. Never heard anyone complain about it. What ever keeps ya warm in January on the North Atlantic at 0300 right?
SprCForr SprCForr:
the Tac Vest issue, the rest of the stuff in the story is simply more "same old, same old". Some troops hate issued kit and spend their own dough on the Gucci stuff, while others can get by. It's been like that since Centurion was a rank not a tank.
Ask any troop which they would prefer, stuff from 15 years ago or today's kit. Specifically rain gear. Goretex of today or the old green plastic bags? The answer is hands down Goretex. Go back and ask if they would prefer stuff from 25 years ago to stuff from 15 years ago. Don't even get me started on shit like boots. The kit has gotten better, but the jonesing for snivel kit hasn't changed one bit.
The issue of quarters is the same again. Somebody has to stay in the BAT for a while longer, but not them, so make someone else stay in them.
Don't get sucked into the "Government didn't equip us" beef. They did. They did it with kit that was approved and tested by our own people. The problem is (as it always was) that it didn't adapt fast enough and too many chair-borne warriors meddled (based on their vast experience such as from Cyprus in 84 or from UNPROFOR HQ in Zagreb in 93) with the recommedations of the Field Force when asked for their input. That is the real issue, not the fact that Pte Bloggins' "Secret Squirrel Commando Ninja Death Stalker 1001 uses folding can-opener sword/combo" was bought with his own money.
Thanks for your point of view. If you don't think the Army isn't under-funded etc would you say the Navy is with their Sea King Helicopters? I'm not sure if the Subs Canada bought would been seen as being under funded when it was more of buying leaking Subs from the Brits.
Wullu @ Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:09 pm
Not to slag or anything but the navy owns no aircraft except a couple experimental UAVs
The Sea kings belong to the Air Force and all kudos to them for the flying record they have. The guys and gals on the maintenace teams do magic and voo doo to keep em up and running.
Wullu Wullu:
Not to slag or anything but the navy owns no aircraft except a couple experimental UAVs

The Sea kings belong to the Air Force and all kudos to them for the flying record they have. The guys and gals on the maintenace teams do magic and voo doo to keep em up and running.
Thanks for clearing that up on the Sea Kings.
Yes kudos to the matinenace team for keep those dinosaurs flying.
I bought my own wet weather gear when I was in the navy as the tuff I was issued kept water in but not out. The military isn't the only government organization that has to spend in order to operate efficiently. Teachers spend on average, $1 500 - $2 000 a year of their own cash to buy classroom supplies that should have been covered by the school divisions. This is just another example of the Government underfunding crucial areas, while they continue to vote raises and benefits for themselves.
Johnny_Utah Johnny_Utah:
Thanks for your point of view. If you don't think the Army isn't under-funded etc would you say the Navy is with their Sea King Helicopters? I'm not sure if the Subs Canada bought would been seen as being under funded when it was more of buying leaking Subs from the Brits.
This isn't about under-funding. It's about personal kit likes and dislikes and the resultant constant complaints. Its also about the kit aquisition process. If you read my original post over carefully you'll see that I've separated the legit complaint (Tac Vest design) from the whine. That poor design wasn't from lack of funding.
Johnny_Utah Johnny_Utah:
SprCForr SprCForr:
the Tac Vest issue, the rest of the stuff in the story is simply more "same old, same old". Some troops hate issued kit and spend their own dough on the Gucci stuff, while others can get by. It's been like that since Centurion was a rank not a tank.
Ask any troop which they would prefer, stuff from 15 years ago or today's kit. Specifically rain gear. Goretex of today or the old green plastic bags? The answer is hands down Goretex. Go back and ask if they would prefer stuff from 25 years ago to stuff from 15 years ago. Don't even get me started on shit like boots. The kit has gotten better, but the jonesing for snivel kit hasn't changed one bit.
The issue of quarters is the same again. Somebody has to stay in the BAT for a while longer, but not them, so make someone else stay in them.
Don't get sucked into the "Government didn't equip us" beef. They did. They did it with kit that was approved and tested by our own people. The problem is (as it always was) that it didn't adapt fast enough and too many chair-borne warriors meddled (based on their vast experience such as from Cyprus in 84 or from UNPROFOR HQ in Zagreb in 93) with the recommedations of the Field Force when asked for their input. That is the real issue, not the fact that Pte Bloggins' "Secret Squirrel Commando Ninja Death Stalker 1001 uses folding can-opener sword/combo" was bought with his own money.
Thanks for your point of view. If you don't think the Army isn't under-funded etc would you say the Navy is with their Sea King Helicopters? I'm not sure if the Subs Canada bought would been seen as being under funded when it was more of buying leaking Subs from the Brits.
I think you have confused personal kit with machinery. I am sure not many sailors go to sea and bring their own Sub with them, nor do the troops on the ground bring along their own POT (personally owned Tank). Vests and boots are the subject matter.
2Cdo @ Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:33 pm
Absolutely nothing new here, troops have been bitching about kit/pay/time off/weather/vehicles/living accomodations/food/ammo/work/PT/mess dues/Regimental dues/weapons and pretty much anything they can think of since their was an army!
Hannibals troops probably bitched about the elephant droppings they had to work around! 
They couldn't reload their bows from the quivers mounted on the big ass elephant saddle fast enough. Or their spear got caught in all the straps needed to keep that big ass saddle on that beast. And why did the big ass elephant drivers get to keep more pers kit than the foot soldiers? Not Fair!

SprCForr SprCForr:
They couldn't reload their bows from the quivers mounted on the big ass elephant saddle fast enough. Or their spear got caught in all the straps needed to keep that big ass saddle on that beast. And why did the big ass elephant drivers get to keep more pers kit than the foot soldiers? Not Fair!

Come on Sapper, what is this "they" stuff, tell us what it was really like in them days!!!!
2Cdo @ Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:41 pm
$1:
They couldn't reload their bows from the quivers mounted on the big ass elephant saddle fast enough. Or their spear got caught in all the straps needed to keep that big ass saddle on that beast. And why did the big ass elephant drivers get to keep more pers kit than the foot soldiers? Not Fair!
You understand!