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The "War on Terror" will be a never ending war. Even if Bin Laden is caught, tried and convicted, ther will be another person to take his place. Fighting a War on Terror is fighting a war on an idea and belief and as long as one person has the belief and drive, others will follow.

Believing we should automatically back the Americans because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is walking on dangerous turf - the same turf the Americans have walked on for years.....and the reason why many people in the world (rationally or irrationally depending on your view) don't trust the US - and want to hurt them. I'm proud to be a citizen of a country that will think for itself and not be a puppet of the US.

Radical religious groups DO fuel the fire, but it's not just one sided. Here in the "Bible Belt" I see TV Preachers on an almost daily basis spouting hatred toward all who do not have the same Christian viewpoint. We see the Islamic fundamentalists as extreme - so do your "average run of the mill" Muslims - so how do they view the Christian fundamentalists that preach hellfire and brimstone? I'm sure it's as scary to them as it is to me.

As always, there are three sides to every story.

   

So according to at least two of you, any military killings is OK because it is classified as 'unintentional'. Which part exactly was unintentional? When Bush unintentionally declared war on a weaker country? When the various soldiers unintentionally boarded planes, ships and other vehicles to enter the country illegally? When forces bombed areas where they knew civilians would be? Also illegal by the way. Was it when those soldiers prevented students from entering their own school after the same soldiers unintentionally and illegally took control of the school and then looked at the students and then fired on them with machine guns?
Do you really think ALL of this, and this is only the tip of the iceberg, was unintentional? The forces and government officials had absolutely no idea? Adolf Hitler and Joe Stalin would be proud.
Everyone knew the forces were going to Iraq with the intent to kill ANYONE who didn't agree with them and that is exactly what happening and is happening. BTW, the reasons soldiers are trained to use guns is to kill so there is already intent. But according to previous postings, ANY and ALL military action is OK and anything otherwise is terrorism.

   

"War on Terror" is misleading as terror is a tactic used by our enemies. Our enemies, the terrorists, are Islamic Militants. Bush and the other leaders should stop prancing around and call this war what it is, a war against MILITANT ISLAM. Communism too was an idea but it has been defeated. Communism now is no longer a global force and has been regulated to the political margins. The same will happen to MILITANT Islam.



We should only back the Americans when we have an intrest at stake. In this case we do. The bin-Ladens seek to bring the world under their own extremist brand of Islam. They will kill anyone, even dissenting Muslims to do this. Many people around the world want to hurt the US because they envy the Americans wealth and power. The US has always acted in the US intrest, so what? Canada acts in Canada's intrest. As I have said in this war our two countries intrests are the same, remove the threat of MILITANT Islam to our security.



How many of these Christian Fundementalists advocate the use of violence against civilians? I'd bet not many. People also speak out against them WITHOUT making excuses for them. Know how many Muslims do we here speaking out against the militants? How many of them condem these atrocities period without making some excuse for them. I am currently unaware of any religious decree against these extremists. Declaring bin-Laden and his ilk heretics would go a long way in helping to end this war. Well no relgious decree against bin-Laden has been issued these people see nothing wrong with declaring the fatwah against Salman Rushdie null and void.



You forgot to mention that this weaker country was a known supporter and financer of terrorists. Besides just because your the weaker party does not atomaticly make you right. Iraq was given 12 years to change her ways. As for the Coalition entering Iraq illeglally, the Gulf War of 1990-1991 was never offically ended. There was a ceasefire agreement which Saddam violated on numerous occasions. Thus the Iraq war was a continuation of the Gulf War as well as the "War on Terror". The Coalition had all the legal justification to invade Iraq after Saddam broke the ceasefire the first time or any time after that. Why did the Americans bomb areas where they knew civilians would be? Could it be because St. Saddam had hidden his troops in those areas. According to the Geneva Conventions responsibility for civilian casulties lies with the side who hides it's combatants among civilians, in this case Saddam.



The Americans had no wish to kill civilians, but they knew it would be unavoidable. The cost of not acting would be greater as Saddam would have been allowed to continue financing terrorists. Besides the Iraqi's have been given a taste of freedom. Here's hopen that a democracy can emerge.
Hitler and Stalin are probably very proud of Saddam. Saddam learned alot from those two, but not enough.



Soldiers are trained to use guns to kill enemy SOLDIERS not civilians. Yes sometimes civilians get caught in the crossfire but that is unavoidable especially in battle. al-Qaeda and Saddam intentionally targeted innocent civilians. Let me say this I do not consider the bombing of the USS Cole an act of terrorism. That was an act of war by al-Qaeda. The Cole was a military target, same with the Marine Barricks in Beirut. The WTC, Mombassa, Bali, Riyadh and Casablanca among others where all civilian targets. Hell most of the people killed where even Americans or Jews (the two groups that al-Qaeda says it's fighting against). What can we learn from this? That al-Qaeda and those like it prefer to act like cowerdly murders to soldiers and that their goals are not to rid the Middle East of American influence but to terrorize people into excepting their vision of how the world should be. We are all potental targets to these people. It's time to wake up to this fact.

   

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You forgot to mention that this weaker country was a known supporter and financer of terrorists. Besides just because your the weaker party does not atomaticly make you right. Iraq was given 12 years to change her ways. As for the Coalition entering Iraq illeglally, the Gulf War of 1990-1991 was never offically ended. There was a ceasefire agreement which Saddam violated on numerous occasions. Thus the Iraq war was a continuation of the Gulf War as well as the "War on Terror". The Coalition had all the legal justification to invade Iraq after Saddam broke the ceasefire the first time or any time after that. Why did the Americans bomb areas where they knew civilians would be? Could it be because St. Saddam had hidden his troops in those areas. According to the Geneva Conventions responsibility for civilian casulties lies with the side who hides it's combatants among civilians, in this case Saddam.

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Just exactly what did those students or any of those civilians do that was connected to financing terrorism, acts of terrorism, the Gulf War or the so called 12 years as you like to call it? Is there any connection at all to the fact that they are dead and the fact that they were living in their own country? As for the Geneva Conventions, there is no allowance for hitting known civilian targets.

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'The Americans had no wish to kill civilians, but they knew it would be unavoidable.'
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They sure did know it. Even Bush knew it so they are not going to get away playing innoncent under the blanket of democracy and freedom. They, like anyone else, have to face up to their reponsiblities.

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Here's hopen that a democracy can emerge.
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So democracy may not emerge? Why is that? Maybe because they are different culture that both sides can't fully grasp? That sure makes me feel better about those civilian deaths.

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Soldiers are trained to use guns to kill enemy SOLDIERS not civilians. Yes sometimes civilians get caught in the crossfire but that is unavoidable especially in battle. al-Qaeda and Saddam intentionally targeted innocent civilians. Let me say this I do not consider the bombing of the USS Cole an act of terrorism. That was an act of war by al-Qaeda. The Cole was a military target, same with the Marine Barricks in Beirut. The WTC, Mombassa, Bali, Riyadh and Casablanca among others where all civilian targets. Hell most of the people killed where even Americans or Jews (the two groups that al-Qaeda says it's fighting against).
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Soldiers are trained to killed enemy soldiers yes but that doesn't mean they won't kill anyone else. It's not a mathematical standard. One obvious problem is that civilians, not knowing who is the good guys and bad buys, make and often do, defend themselves. Another problem is that civilians are often threatened of forced to fight. Hell, I would go as high as 70% of those so called POWs in Cuba were not Al-Queda fighters or terrorists or Taliban, whatever, they were unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time.

   

Nothing. That's why I said they where UNINTENTIONALLY Killed. You seem to be very worried about innocent civilians getting killed by Americans but did you speak out against all the innocent civilians Saddam killed and tortured? If not then why the concern all of a sudden? You can not claim to be concerned about innocent people but only speak out when they are killed by Americans. Saddam had been practising ethnic cleanising against the Kurds in the north and had all but destroyed the culture of the Swamp Arabs in Southern Iraq. Did you speak out against these actions?



Democracy may not emerge because forces throughout the region have no intrest in a democratic secular Iraq. Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia are all authoritarian regimes. They are threatned by the possibilities of a democratic Iraq. Such a state would show their own people that they did not have to live under tyranny but that there is another way. Syria and Iran have sent their agents to Iraq to insure that democracy doesn't take root. BTW Maclane's Magazine was reporting that many Iranians where dissapointed that the Americans did not continue on to Iran.



I assume when you say the civilians will defend themselves you mean they will pick up a weapon and fight. The second a civilians picks up a weapon to fight he/she is no longer a civilian. He/she has choosen to become a combatant and their deaths can not be countented as civilian casulties. Where do you get 70% from? Even if they where conscripted they where still combatants. The US realesed most of the Afghans and Iraqi's who were conscripted after the war in those countries.

   

I will admit to you polemarch that it is rare to hear Christian groups beating the drums of war. In the past few months I can only recall two such incidents - I don't make it a habit to watch these TV channels, however, because they quite frankly usually make me nauseous.

The first incident I saw was from Billy Graham's son. He indicated that the Islamic faith was "evil" and a "threat to mankind". He never said the word RADICAL. He also indicated that all Muslims should be converted to Christianity. On the news here I have heard he is going to Iraq to "help" - along with a huge shipment of bibles......

The other incident was by some guy I can only describe as short, fat and sweaty with a Southern drawl. He had a HUGE picture of Satan (at least I assume it was him...red, horns, fire...) behind him. And he said, "anyone who does not believe Jesus is the son of God will burn forever in the pit of Hell. They will deserve it because we have warned them!". I guess he doesn't like the Jews either! He also said the best way to save the world was to "wipe out anyone who doesn't love Jesus"

This seems a little Radical eh?

I'm all for targeting hatred. I'm a peaceful sort of fellow. But I think we have to do some work at home too and not keep the blinders on too tight if we hope to succeed.

   

I agree that something should be done about these Christian Fundementalist's who preach hate as well. Currently though they are not as big a problem as the Radical Muslim's. When was the last act of terror commited by Christian Fundementalist's in order to force other's to except their views? I can not think of anything in recent history.

Here's an update on the Riyadh and Casablanca attacks. Some anaylsts are saying that they where diversions so that another terror squad could slip into the US.
Terror Team Headed To U.S.?

   

I'd say the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, but hey! They're Jews (being funded by Christians). It IS a violation of a UN resolution, however.....

I know....I know.... both sides in THAT one are pretty nasty.

   

The Israeli occupation of Gaza and the West Bank was the result of a defensive war against the Arabs. The UN resolution says the Israeli's must withdraw only after their security is assured. Besides the Israelis haven't tried to force the Muslims or Christians to convert. Your right though it is pretty nasty over there. 5 terrorist attacks in 48 hours. And I thought the Palestinian Authority was suppossed to fight terrorists before any progress could be made. Guess they decided to show their true colours.

   

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Nothing. That's why I said they where UNINTENTIONALLY Killed. You seem to be very worried about innocent civilians getting killed by Americans but did you speak out against all the innocent civilians Saddam killed and tortured? If not then why the concern all of a sudden? You can not claim to be concerned about innocent people but only speak out when they are killed by Americans. Saddam had been practising ethnic cleanising against the Kurds in the north and had all but destroyed the culture of the Swamp Arabs in Southern Iraq. Did you speak out against these actions?
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Obviously, you are trying to divert the subject to something it is NOT in an attempt to distract readers, very annoying. The topic is the supposed war in Iraq, in other words, the coalition forces invading Iraq.
For the record and to satisfy you, I did speak out against the autrocities of Saddam Hussein and his followers , I spoke out against wealthy countries like the US and Germany helping him, encouraging and enabling him to rise to power. There, that issue is out of the way and from now on, please show a little respect and stay on track. Do not tell me what I 'can' or 'can't' do based on assumptions and/or lack of knowledge. Just because you don't see or hear something does not mean it didn't or is not happening.
You admittance of 'nothing' does not prove that they were killed 'unintentionally', in fact, it proves that they were killed. Are you saying that it was a mistake? That the soldiers had no idea what they were doing? That the soldiers (I'll use this term to apply to any military forces involved) had absolutely no idea who those people?

   

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Democracy may not emerge because forces throughout the region have no intrest in a democratic secular Iraq. Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia are all authoritarian regimes.
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Exactly! So what's your point? Heck, we gave it a try, killed a lot of people, participated in a lot of illegal activity but countered other illegal activity, nevertheless it may or may not work? Very interesting logic.

   

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'I assume when you say the civilians will defend themselves you mean they will pick up a weapon and fight. The second a civilians picks up a weapon to fight he/she is no longer a civilian.'
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Again, not true. Anybody has a right to defend their own property. If a soldier from a foreign country enters your property, defending it is neither a military act nor an act of terrorism.

   

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Where do you get 70% from?
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Obviously, you did not read the entire statement and therefore, took this out of context.

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Even if they where conscripted they where still combatants.
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And whose fault is that? The country that builds up the dicatator or the dictator himself?

   

HALT! Identify yourselves, I'm getting dizzy!

   

To all those, especially guests, who love to quote statistics and incidents of soldiers killings civilians. Do you have any idea, how hard it is to keep the peace and even fight a war in cities and urban environments. I give you all an example you can relate to. The Matrix. You know when they walk around and anyone can just turn into an agent in an instant and start shooting at them. That's exactly what they are facing. Terrorists and those still loyal to Saddam or just anti-Western for the most part do not wear uniforms. That'd be suicide. They cannot fight conventionally and win. They know this, so they knowingly stay hidden, blend in with the crowd so they can get close and chuck a couple of grenades. That's how it is. Imagine the intense pressure of not knowing who is your enemy. Surrounded by people who are smiling at you and might be holding a weapon which is intended to kill you. I'll be a little edgy if you ask me. Before you start critizing soldiers, but yourself in your shoes. In a tough situation, which would you do. Restrain and die or risk making a mistake. I'm not saying it's good by any means, but it is not like the Rape of Nanking. Children, that's another tough one. It's easy to think young people are safe. But remember that children are also easier to influence. Even if that influence is extremist. But on that note, I'd much rather error to the side of restraint.

And I'm spent

   

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