Friendly Fire
Dimcl @ Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:54 pm
As someone who comes from a long line of military members, I've tried to be optimistic about the reasons our soldiers are in Afghanistan. I've heard the arguments, pro and con, for being involved in this action. I've tried to "support our troops" and not be negative about the body bags. And I understand it when the families of the deceased soldiers defend our participation in Afghanistan... how else can they reconcile the death of their loved ones? I would imagine that to be against our involvement would be to negate their loved one's death. But I would sincerely like to know how the death of a Canadian soldier in friendly fire (what an oxymoron!) can ever be reconciled. Where are the arguments about fighting for democracy and freedom when a man is killed by "friends"? That young man died today because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm told that "friendly fire has always been a consequence of war". True enough. But do we really believe that our 2,300 troops in Afghanistan are making a difference? And is the death of another young Canadian just going to be another 30 second "blurb" on CBC? If I see another federal politician "express his regret" and "extend his condolences to the family", I'm going to be sick! It's time to bring our young men and women home and get them away from their "friends".
Bodah @ Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:35 pm
Coming from a military background you should know that people that join the military know they maybe headed for forward positions in which unfortunately being killed is a possibility, they are aware of it and so are their families. And I thank them for making the ultimate sacrifice so I may continue living the way you and I do and we should not take it for granted.
So in short, were not done there yet so suck it up, times have changed.
"the only way for evil to exist is for good men to sit down and do nothing"
ridenrain @ Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:52 pm
Sorry, Dimcl.
I don't believe you come from a family with a military history, or maybe you just weren't paying attention on those rememberance days. Ask those vets in you're family about ww2 or Korea. Those were examples of us "making a difference".
As regretable as it is, would any of those 2300 soldiers say that the sacrifice is to great and mayby it was time to leave the Afghan people to the horrors of religious fanatics?
Thank you for you're opinion but maybe you need to talk to those vets who secured you're right to an opinion.
Dimcl @ Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:33 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
Sorry, Dimcl.
I don't believe you come from a family with a military history, or maybe you just weren't paying attention on those rememberance days. Ask those vets in you're family about ww2 or Korea.
I don't believe you come from a family with a military history, or maybe you just weren't paying attention on those rememberance days. Ask those vets in you're family about ww2 or Korea.
Grandfathers: WW1 - both at Passchaendaele. Grand-uncle: WW1, buried at Vimy. Uncles: WW2 - two in RCAF in European theatre, one on the Bataan Death March. Father: Korea, Gaza. Brother: Bosnia, Macedonia. Why would I say I come from a military background if I didn't, you pompous little shit? As for paying attention on Remembrance Day, I've been to more of those ceremonies and talked to more veterans than the number of times you've had your diapers changed (which, I'm sure, is an awful lot considering that you're probably still in diapers). So don't impugn what I say and especially don't patronize me by suggesting that I "ask those vets in you're (learn about punctuation, by the way) family".
It would be nice to believe that these "discussion" forums were just that but they are obviously places where cowardly little weasels like you can come and slang people in total anonymity and feel like big men. Thanks for the enlightened discussion you abhorrent little turd.
ridenrain @ Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:03 pm
$1:
Rookie Girl, I see that you're a "newbie" to these forums, as am I, and I would like to give you the same advice that I am going to take myself... get the hell out of these forums and don't come back because it is only an invitation to have any of your concerns or opinions trashed by ignorant, vile, filthy-mouthed, condescending a-holes who think that their opinions are the only ones that count.
I had joined CKA in the hope that it would be a place for intelligent discourse and was I ever wrong! It all eventually leads to name-calling, chest-thumping and pure idiocy. This appears to be a site where insecure little twerps can come to feel like tough guys by bashing other people and when someone like yourself does express a legitimate (to them) concern, they get nothing but foul-mouthed crap.
Do yourself a favour and don't come back - leave these forums to the mouth-breathers who have nothing better to do with their time but to dream up conspiracy theories and crap on other people.
I had joined CKA in the hope that it would be a place for intelligent discourse and was I ever wrong! It all eventually leads to name-calling, chest-thumping and pure idiocy. This appears to be a site where insecure little twerps can come to feel like tough guys by bashing other people and when someone like yourself does express a legitimate (to them) concern, they get nothing but foul-mouthed crap.
Do yourself a favour and don't come back - leave these forums to the mouth-breathers who have nothing better to do with their time but to dream up conspiracy theories and crap on other people.
Didn't you say this?
Didn't you believe what you said?
Why then, are you still here?
How can you explain that the folks who have been there, saw whats going on, are some of the strongest advocates for the misson? Even ex-defence minister Billy is unable to say anything bad about the mission, leaving little no-body turds like Layton to troll the loony left for votes.
sarge @ Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:16 pm
As a retired Infantry Sergeant,with 20 years of service,I understand why our troops are over in Afghanistan! I am not in a position to question why our troops are there for whatever political reasons,however when I joined up back in the 80's,I took an oath and accepted the risks I may have faced during my career and that is the bottom line.I served extremely proud with my Battalion and I have had no regrets!I understood the risks in all aspects whether in Peace or in an Operational Theatre of war! Yes,unfortunately soldiers die for various reasons and it is so sad and we ask ourselves why!Especially being killed by "Friendly Fire",but dammit,it happens and it sucks!!I want to hear the answers as to why this incident happened and someone must be held accountable for it!These pilots must not get trigger happy,but must first identify people on the ground as "friendly" or "foe"!Soldiers are trained to survive in the Battlefield! And that means doing whatever it takes!And survivors we are! My prayers go out to each and every Soldier in Afghanistan and our fine Country! I support you all,100 percent in what you are doing and have accomplished so far.These Soldiers are doing their job's and doing it extremely well! Keep the politics to the politicians and concentrate on the mission at hand!Close with and destroy the enemy!
"Retired Sarge"
ridenrain @ Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:58 am
Welcome to the forum.
sniper1shot @ Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:36 pm
I have already posted my Rants on various forums on how an Entertainer, Steve Irwin, now gets more air time than 20 allied KIA soldiers.
15 British
5 Canadian
and that is only in the last few days, NOT to mention all the wounded And not to mention all the US and their coalition forces in Iraq.
The population has grown so desensitised (spelt right?) that after a couple of days air time is now goes to the later half of the news (if that) yet we are still going to be seeing Steve Irwin and hear about his untimely death. Now before everyone goes down my throat on that....I am sorry to hear of his passing and I do feel for his children but I also feel for the 5 Cdn Families and all of their children too. My condolences also go to the Allied soldiers over there.
Hell, I could get my "marching orders" for Afghanistan too.
We can not start to get weak kneed over this....We are dishing out better than we are receiving and with our trg and technology we will prevail !
Friendly Fire indeed. Was nothing learned over this from the first incident in 2002 (?).
Yank-in-NY @ Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:39 pm
sniper1shot sniper1shot:
Friendly Fire indeed. Was nothing learned over this from the first incident in 2002 (?).
Only that it's bound to happen again.
Arctic_Menace @ Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:58 pm
While this will always happen(unfortunately), the least your government could do is say sorry...
Motorcycleboy @ Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:04 pm
sniper1shot sniper1shot:
I have already posted my Rants on various forums on how an Entertainer, Steve Irwin, now gets more air time than 20 allied KIA soldiers.
15 British
5 Canadian
and that is only in the last few days, NOT to mention all the wounded And not to mention all the US and their coalition forces in Iraq.
The population has grown so desensitised (spelt right?) that after a couple of days air time is now goes to the later half of the news (if that) yet we are still going to be seeing Steve Irwin and hear about his untimely death. Now before everyone goes down my throat on that....I am sorry to hear of his passing and I do feel for his children but I also feel for the 5 Cdn Families and all of their children too. My condolences also go to the Allied soldiers over there.
Hell, I could get my "marching orders" for Afghanistan too.
We can not start to get weak kneed over this....We are dishing out better than we are receiving and with our trg and technology we will prevail !
Friendly Fire indeed. Was nothing learned over this from the first incident in 2002 (?).
15 British
5 Canadian
and that is only in the last few days, NOT to mention all the wounded And not to mention all the US and their coalition forces in Iraq.
The population has grown so desensitised (spelt right?) that after a couple of days air time is now goes to the later half of the news (if that) yet we are still going to be seeing Steve Irwin and hear about his untimely death. Now before everyone goes down my throat on that....I am sorry to hear of his passing and I do feel for his children but I also feel for the 5 Cdn Families and all of their children too. My condolences also go to the Allied soldiers over there.
Hell, I could get my "marching orders" for Afghanistan too.
We can not start to get weak kneed over this....We are dishing out better than we are receiving and with our trg and technology we will prevail !
Friendly Fire indeed. Was nothing learned over this from the first incident in 2002 (?).
A couple of points there Sniper. Firstly, the reason Irwin is a bigger story than the 5 Canadians is because it's unusual. News stories aren't about arithmetic, they're about general interest. Everybody has seen the Croc Hunter on TV. So his death strikes everyone. Soldiers coming home in body bags is becoming a daily occurrence. If it were just numbers, then we should be devoting the front page of every newspaper to car accident victims. After all, far more people die in collisions than in Afghanistan.
Second, if you ask me, there's already too much coverage of the casualties. Imagine if we'd had full, live tv coverage of every death Canada suffered in World War 2 or Korea? It would have been daily misery. That's what this is becoming. I would prefer a few good news stories once in awhile, like about how the Royals are smoking those fuckers in Pangewei at a rate of about 50 to one, or about how the PRT is going around setting up infrastructure every day.
As for friendly fire, on the face of it, this is hardly the same as 2002. That was a case of a cowboy pilot dropping a bomb against orders, when he didn't have to. By all accounts, this happened in the middle of a fire fight. That's always a danger with close air, but in the end, those missions save way more of our troops than they kill. And in the end, that's what it's all about.
EyeBrock @ Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:06 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
While this will always happen(unfortunately), the least your government could do is say sorry...
I totally agree. Some sympathy would go a long way here. And maybe some further training for the USAFRES.
Air Command where are you?
Arctic_Menace @ Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:11 pm
Evidently, they are true air heads. 
Sorry, just couldn't resist...
Yank-in-NY @ Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:17 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
While this will always happen(unfortunately), the least your government could do is say sorry...
Possibly, I'm not sure if it's common diplomacy to do so.
Did Harper apologize for a Canadian soldier shooting a 10 year old boy in Afghanistan? Just curious.
Arctic_Menace @ Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:19 pm
He didn't. and I wish he did. If I was PM, I'd do it. It helps show that you actually care...