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Bart you don't know what you're talking about. You're out of your depth. You ran away from that thread with your tail between your legs because you're so clueless. That's all that needs to be said.

   

As I said, Ontario's results are better than all the other provinces, save for Sask, which is consistent with past performances as well. Whatever the criticisms, we're still one of the best. Ontario's Wait Time Alliance rating was in worst place under Harris and was First Place last year.

And as for your claims that it didn't get better after Harris:

Below are benchmarks to 2003, when the Libs first got elected:


By 2012:

Attracted 4000 doctors
2.1 million more Ontarians had a family doctor
Shortest wait times in Canada - some cut in half
Opened the Northern Ontario School of Medicine, the first new med school in the in 30 years.
Created more than 15,000 new nursing positions
Added more than 9,207 hospital beds
Added 10,000 more long-term care staff
Performed over 303,712 more breast cancer screening exams per year


And by 2014, the last year for which there are full records:

Attracted more than 4,900 doctors
Two million more Ontarians have a family doctor
Built 23 new hospitals
Employed 20,000 more nurses
Expanded the number of OHIP-covered vaccines from 8 to 21
Expanded newborn disease screening from 2 diseases to 29
Created 206 Community Family Health Teams, 25 Nurse Practitioner clinics, and 51 new Community Health Centre sites, serving over 3.5 million patients

   

Where are those stats from?

   

Ministry of Health and Long Term Care Annual Progress Report

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/ms/ecfa/healthy_change/

Edit: oops, I lied, looks like there is one for 2015 that I overlooked. But Im too lazy for the updated numbers.

   

Probably, considering Canada also had a Conservative government for much of that time.

   

Too bad for your argument that health care is a provincial matter in Canada, not federal.

   

From one partisan piece to another:

http://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/in ... ructuring/

   

1) Nothing that I see there contradicts what I've posted.

2) That site also take Harris to task on that website. For example: "The Harris government attempted to take $1 billion out of hospital operating budgets in the mid-late 1990s. The costs for restructuring were $3.9 billion, according to the Provincial Auditor. Restructuring costs went $1.8 billion over budget. More than 9,000 hospital beds have been cut since the beginning of the Harris-era restructuring, resulting in extraordinary waits for hospital admissions, and extraordinary levels of hospital overcrowding."


3) Looking at their reports, they don't seem to have any data past 2010, so before a lot of the new hospitals etc. came online

4) The website is mostly focused on inputs or indirect measures (e.g. reports on funding per capita, reports on why funding is important, Ontario has fewer beds per person than other provinces, etc.) While these are important and relevant to the discussion, they are indirect measures. What matters is that we have enough beds for our patients, not more beds per capita than PEI.

I would be interested if they had more current data.

   

Why did Harris make those changes?

You and the rest of the Liberals need to stop blaming Harris for changes made by Jean Chretien and Paul Martin. On one hand, you praise Martin and Chretien for their actions to get the books in order and blame the Premiers for the cuts caused by those same two guys.

Harris was far from perfect, but let's place blame where it's due.

I don't buy your rose-coloured approach to Ontario health care. I don't think the Liberals have done a good job, considering the amount of money they've taken from us and the amount of mistakes that have happened under their watch.

Being the least stinky pile of crap isn't something to celebrate.

   

I stop short of praising them. But I point it out as hilarity when conservatives claim to be the only ones who can balance the books, meanwhile Harper ran 7 consecutive deficits and Chretien/Martin ran 7 consecutive surpluses.

And Harris had less extreme ways out.

   

None of them can balance the books properly. The Liberals balanced the books on the back of the Provinces during amazing economic times.

And why would they? Canadians don't care if the books are balanced.

Our budgets rely heavily on external sources which is why Chretien had such success during his tenure. On top of having a strong us economy, billions were downloaded onto the Provinces. Most people can run a balanced budget with these conditions.

We all, you included, need to start looking at the whole picture when we make sweeping comments and avoid placing blame purely for partisan reasons.

   

Well maybe all the tax cuts are the problem then because there's not enough revenue to balance the books.

   

Nice try OTI, but unfortunately these guys think exactly the same way someone like Roman P does. You'll never get through to ideologues.

   

Why is revenue always an issue with Liberals like yourself?

Why aren't you able to look within and find savings within?

   

Didn't you just finish complaining about how Chretien doing exactly that put Harris is tough position?

   

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