Russia is starting to use the same line on Baltic countries
BartSimpson @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:13 pm
The original and full title: $1:Russia is starting to use the same line on Baltic countries that it used to invade Ukraine
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/1/6880329/ru ... ne-estonia
$1:
A senior Russian Foreign Ministry official says that Moscow has a responsibility to protect ethnic Russian citizens of other countries, "regardless of where they live," and that "we will do everything possible to defend the rights and interests" of ethnic Russian minorities in the neighboring Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.
The comments came from Anatoly Makarov, the director of the Foreign Ministry's Department for Interaction with Compatriots Abroad. He was speaking to the Russian outlet RuBaltic, as translated by Paul Goble. "We are carrying out a line so that Russian compatriots regardless of where they live are guaranteed all rights and freedoms ... and have the opportunity to preserve the culture and traditions of their historical Motherland," Makarov said, explicitly extending this to the million-plus ethnic Russians who are citizens of Baltic countries.
Here's why that's a bad sign: Russia premised its two invasions of Ukraine (first to annex Crimea in March, then to invade eastern Ukraine in August) on protecting ethnic Russian and Russian-speaking minorities in the country. And Russian President Vladimir Putin's government has embraced the imperial-era idea that Moscow is the real authority responsible for ethnic Russian minorities in other countries. The fear has always been that Putin might extend this thinking to Russian minorities in the Baltic states, as possible prelude to a Ukraine-style invasion there.
The threat of possible Russian meddling or outright invasion in the Baltic states isn't just that another invasion is bad. It's that it could — and I am not exaggerating here — spark World War Three. Unlike Ukraine, the Baltic states are all members of NATO, a mutual self-defense treaty that includes all of Western Europe, Canada, and the United States. A Russian invasion would trigger war with all of those countries, which also happen to include the world's four most heavily armed nuclear powers. That's an extreme outcome, but not entirely out of the range of possibility.
Putin may well be merely testing his limits in the Baltic states, which is probably why President Obama himself flew to Estonia and gave a speech warning Russia that the American military would defend it and other Baltics from any Russian aggression. Less than 48 hours later, though, Russian agents crossed the border into Estonia and kidnapped an Estonian state security officer who works on counterintelligence. While far short of an act of war, it certainly seemed like a provocation intended to signal Moscow's willingness and desire to bully its Baltic neighbors, NATO mutual defense treaties be damned.
The comments came from Anatoly Makarov, the director of the Foreign Ministry's Department for Interaction with Compatriots Abroad. He was speaking to the Russian outlet RuBaltic, as translated by Paul Goble. "We are carrying out a line so that Russian compatriots regardless of where they live are guaranteed all rights and freedoms ... and have the opportunity to preserve the culture and traditions of their historical Motherland," Makarov said, explicitly extending this to the million-plus ethnic Russians who are citizens of Baltic countries.
Here's why that's a bad sign: Russia premised its two invasions of Ukraine (first to annex Crimea in March, then to invade eastern Ukraine in August) on protecting ethnic Russian and Russian-speaking minorities in the country. And Russian President Vladimir Putin's government has embraced the imperial-era idea that Moscow is the real authority responsible for ethnic Russian minorities in other countries. The fear has always been that Putin might extend this thinking to Russian minorities in the Baltic states, as possible prelude to a Ukraine-style invasion there.
The threat of possible Russian meddling or outright invasion in the Baltic states isn't just that another invasion is bad. It's that it could — and I am not exaggerating here — spark World War Three. Unlike Ukraine, the Baltic states are all members of NATO, a mutual self-defense treaty that includes all of Western Europe, Canada, and the United States. A Russian invasion would trigger war with all of those countries, which also happen to include the world's four most heavily armed nuclear powers. That's an extreme outcome, but not entirely out of the range of possibility.
Putin may well be merely testing his limits in the Baltic states, which is probably why President Obama himself flew to Estonia and gave a speech warning Russia that the American military would defend it and other Baltics from any Russian aggression. Less than 48 hours later, though, Russian agents crossed the border into Estonia and kidnapped an Estonian state security officer who works on counterintelligence. While far short of an act of war, it certainly seemed like a provocation intended to signal Moscow's willingness and desire to bully its Baltic neighbors, NATO mutual defense treaties be damned.
And watch for Putin to do this while a weak Obama is still in office. My guess is that if Putin is going to do this he'll do it next spring...late April or early May. The Russians historically have chosen that time for their elective offensives.
In the meantime we can expect the level of Russian agitprop in the Baltics to increase.
If we had a US President who sported a pair he'd be telling anyone with a Russian passport to GTFO of any NATO country and head home.
F***ing Russians. I can't believe they're doing this sh*t again.
saturn_656 @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:21 pm
If NATO doesn't defend the Baltics the entire concept of collective defence (core principal of the alliance) will fall apart, as will NATO itself shortly thereafter.
saturn_656 @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:30 pm
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-wp-bl ... story.html
Former chancellor (and apparently current Russian patsy) Gerhard Schroeder says Germany should become more dependent on Russian energy.
DrCaleb @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:30 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
F***ing Russians. I can't believe they're doing this sh*t again.
Because we let them.
You give the Russians an inch, they take the whole continent and laugh at you and say 'it was always ours, what are you talking about?'
DrCaleb @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:31 pm
saturn_656 saturn_656:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-wp-blm-news-bc-schroeder01-20141001-story.html
Former chancellor (and apparently current Russian patsy) Gerhard Schroeder says Germany should become more dependent on Russian energy.
Former chancellor (and apparently current Russian patsy) Gerhard Schroeder says Germany should become more dependent on Russian energy.
He and Premier Wynne should get together and compare lip exercises for maximum butt suckage.
BartSimpson @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:34 pm
saturn_656 saturn_656:
If NATO doesn't defend the Baltics the entire concept of collective defence (core principal of the alliance) will fall apart, as will NATO itself shortly thereafter.
Jesus help us all if Obama lets Putin get away with this.
Just saying this kind of thing should result in total sanctions against Russia.
I'd also inform the Russians that as of now if their aircraft are found in our ADIZ then they won't be coming home.
martin14 @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:47 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
And watch for Putin to do this while a weak Obama is still in office. My guess is that if Putin is going to do this he'll do it next spring...late April or early May. The Russians historically have chosen that time for their elective offensives.
True enough, Russians fighting in winter, especially against small countries, like Finland, didn't work out too well the last time.
Fucking Russians.
Fucking Obongo.
Nice fucking mess.
ShepherdsDog @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:53 pm
It's an opportune time to do it for them, as most of NATO is being distracted with the follies in sand bandit land.
Freakinoldguy @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:07 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
F***ing Russians. I can't believe they're doing this sh*t again.
Because we let them.
You give the Russians an inch, they take the whole continent and laugh at you and say 'it was always ours, what are you talking about?'
Exactly. I guess none of our current crop of politically correct politicians ever picked up a history book and read about the outcomes of WWII. Especially the part when that good old boy Stalin said he'd allow all the countries they overran to hold free elections and then, put local Russian trained communists in power.
Quite obviously Putin has discovered that Stalin's policy of inclusivity, forced or not is a great way to expand your empire and ensure your legacy.
And for all the brainless twits who keep apologizing for this type of behaviour. 1939 called and wants it's mentality back. The excuse that America has surrounded Russia and they're scared is irrelevant so please take your head out of your ass because these actions aren't a defensive posture being displayed by the Soviet Union sorry, Russia it's pure aggression plain and simple and it's being used to reclaim the satellite's who finally found freedom from the yoke of Russian Imperialism.
Freakinoldguy @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:17 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
saturn_656 saturn_656:
If NATO doesn't defend the Baltics the entire concept of collective defence (core principal of the alliance) will fall apart, as will NATO itself shortly thereafter.
Jesus help us all if Obama lets Putin get away with this.
Just saying this kind of thing should result in total sanctions against Russia.
I'd also inform the Russians that as of now if their aircraft are found in our ADIZ then they won't be coming home.
You're kidding right. Given your President's propensity for avoiding confrontation and conflict he's probably right now cowering under his bed sheets hoping his tenure comes to a quick conclusion before he has to make another decision.
Useless speech to America about sanctions and chastising Putin will follow at 5.
I never thought I'd say this but, if the States are gonna be ruled by democrats, bring on Hilary Clinton so at least one person in the White House has a set of balls.
saturn_656 @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:11 pm
Elements from the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment are being deployed to the region.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/0 ... 3120141001
BRAH @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:29 pm
The West is occupied with ISIS and Putin will make his move.
Gunnair @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:47 pm
Let's tow the Iroquois over.
sandorski @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:07 pm
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
saturn_656 saturn_656:
If NATO doesn't defend the Baltics the entire concept of collective defence (core principal of the alliance) will fall apart, as will NATO itself shortly thereafter.
Jesus help us all if Obama lets Putin get away with this.
Just saying this kind of thing should result in total sanctions against Russia.
I'd also inform the Russians that as of now if their aircraft are found in our ADIZ then they won't be coming home.
You're kidding right. Given your President's propensity for avoiding confrontation and conflict he's probably right now cowering under his bed sheets hoping his tenure comes to a quick conclusion before he has to make another decision.
Useless speech to America about sanctions and chastising Putin will follow at 5.
I never thought I'd say this but, if the States are gonna be ruled by democrats, bring on Hilary Clinton so at least one person in the White House has a set of balls.
If the President is a Democrat, it would help if the Republicans didn't do everything they can to undermine Him/Her.
Jabberwalker @ Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:49 pm
saturn_656 saturn_656:
If NATO doesn't defend the Baltics the entire concept of collective defence (core principal of the alliance) will fall apart, as will NATO itself shortly thereafter.
Divided we fall. The alliance has been a particularly good deal for a "defence lite" country like Canada and we should give it our all if a member state is attacked.