The American myth industry: The Soviet Union
Canadaka @ Wed May 18, 2005 8:58 am
$1:
Good ol' George W. was traveling around Eastern Europe this past week celebrating the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II, spouting a lot of Cold War anti-Communist myths, principal among them being:
The Soviet Union signed a pact with the devil, Nazi Germany, in 1939 for no reason other than the commies and the Nazis were just two of a kind who wanted to carve up Poland together.
Without any justification, the Soviet Union occupied the three Baltic nations in 1940.
Without any justification the Soviet Union occupied the rest of Eastern Europe after the Second World War.
All done, apparently, because the Soviets were an expansionist, brutal empire which liked to subjugate foreign peoples for no particularly good reason; i.e., an "evil empire". "The captivity of millions in Central and Eastern Europe will be remembered as one of the greatest wrongs of history," said Bush while in Latvia.{1}
These tales are all set in marble in American media, textbooks, and folklore, but please humor me as I engage in my usual futility of trying to correct some of the official record.
.... click link to continue
The Soviet Union signed a pact with the devil, Nazi Germany, in 1939 for no reason other than the commies and the Nazis were just two of a kind who wanted to carve up Poland together.
Without any justification, the Soviet Union occupied the three Baltic nations in 1940.
Without any justification the Soviet Union occupied the rest of Eastern Europe after the Second World War.
All done, apparently, because the Soviets were an expansionist, brutal empire which liked to subjugate foreign peoples for no particularly good reason; i.e., an "evil empire". "The captivity of millions in Central and Eastern Europe will be remembered as one of the greatest wrongs of history," said Bush while in Latvia.{1}
These tales are all set in marble in American media, textbooks, and folklore, but please humor me as I engage in my usual futility of trying to correct some of the official record.
.... click link to continue
Rest of article:
http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101 ... _blum.html
BartSimpson @ Wed May 18, 2005 9:12 am
What a crock. The US did not sign ANY alliance treaties in the period specified due to post WW1 isolationist policies. Britain did not ally with the Soviets due to Britains own fear of a Communist revolution - something the Soviets were sponsoring and agitating in the UK.
Besides, look at this way: the guy is critical because no one wanted to be chums with STALIN?????
Puhleeze.
BartSimpson @ Wed May 18, 2005 9:45 am
I might add that Stalin had a nasty habit of KILLING his friends.
Uboat @ Wed May 18, 2005 10:09 am
Avro Avro:
Actually the treaty signed between the Soviets and Germany was for Finland I believe.
Trev, what are you and this author trying to say that the Soviet Union is better than the western countries? You do know that Stalin is responsible for more deaths than Hilter, actually Stalin killed more people than all of WW2. Why would anybody defend that?
Would you have preferred the Soviets winning the cold war? Sometimes I wonder about the left and it's defense of this terrible era in Russian history. I'll take the U.S. imperials over the Soviets any day.
Trev, what are you and this author trying to say that the Soviet Union is better than the western countries? You do know that Stalin is responsible for more deaths than Hilter, actually Stalin killed more people than all of WW2. Why would anybody defend that?
Would you have preferred the Soviets winning the cold war? Sometimes I wonder about the left and it's defense of this terrible era in Russian history. I'll take the U.S. imperials over the Soviets any day.
Who are you, and what have you done with Avro??
twister @ Wed May 18, 2005 10:33 am
where to start where to start. Stalin signed the non agression pact with Hilter for two fold reasons. On the Russian side Stalin had just purged his entire military and going to war with Germany at that time would have caused the collapse of the Soviet union. After WW1 the baltic states of Latvia lithuania and estonia were created. Russia if you remember had a little thing called the Russian revolution which ended thier campaigns in WW1. They surrendered to the Germans, hence they weren't invited to Paris for the treaty of versailles talks and the lands of estonia, latvia lithuania, and czechosovakia were created. Russia has always held them to be part of thier territory. Poland was made bigger and Austria hungary were split into thier representative countries as they are now. Yugoslavia was formed after the ottoman empire the turks were defeated and thier power receded.
Hitler signed the non agression pact with russia for two reasons 1.) protect his interests in Lebensraum " living space." At the start of the second world war Germany's expansion was into areas that had been annexed away from them after the end of WW1. The aunshlas with Austria 1939 the taking of sudetenland from czechoslovakia 1939 and the annexation of all czechosovakia. In Poland Germany wanted the area of Prussia a long held area of german aristocracy. The regained Alsace lorraine after marching into France 1940. The second reason hitler signed the non agression pact was becuase he new that after he invaded Poland Britian and France would defend Poland by declaring war on Germany. If he started the war on 2 fronts he would have been dead by christmas 1939.
In 1941 sensing a weakness in the russian army and after marching through all of western Europe ( except the island of England) Hitler turned his attention to the invasion of Russia June 21 1941 operation Babarossa. thus canceling the Non Agression pact with Russia. The Drive East.
The non agression pact had nothing to do with Finland. Finland and Russia were at odds from the start of the war many border incidents. With Russia finally invading finland. Who by the way had a combination of British and german equipment as well as German advisors.
Yes,Stalin starved out the people of the Ukraine and purged his army's sending many people to the gulags throughout the hinterland of siberia. nothing can be said to defend comrade Stalin and his actions
The Great patriotic war war when it ended cost the lives of over 22 million Russians killed thats soldiers and civilians. The devestation of Cities and of the country. Yes Stalin was bad and he did do some horrible things against his people but he did not kill over 22 million people.
Bushes comments the other day in Georgia echoed Patton's that they didn't finish the job. By the end of the war the common foe the Nazi empire had fallen, asking men who gleefully partied together the night before when the armies met on the banks of the Elbe river in Germany would have been unthinkable. Hitler was hoping that that would have turned the tide. When the US and russian forces met they would begin fighting because of the clashing between communism and capitalism, That was his only hope for the survival of nazi germany in the last days. He how ever got the news that no fighting had broken out.
I can't believe that Bush would have been that stupid to say that in public in russia during the 60th anniversary celebrations to mark the ending of the Great patriotic war.
Uboat @ Wed May 18, 2005 12:35 pm
Relax, it was meant as a joke. I guess when you are busy just being soooo open minded and non-partisan there is little time for humor. Like that old anology; if you support the war in Iraq you are a mindless sheep that agrees with everything Bush does and thinks he was put here by God to save the Earth from evil doers.
Canadaka @ Wed May 18, 2005 2:51 pm
i never said i aggreed or supported anything did I? Just thought it was interesting and could start some discussion.
GunPlumber @ Wed May 18, 2005 3:24 pm
$1:
the lands of estonia, latvia lithuania, and czechosovakia were created
Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania had been provinces of Russia for about 250 years when World War 1 ended. Their liberation had nothing to do with the treaty of Versaille.
Czechoslovakia was created primarily from the Czech and Bohemian areas of Austria, the Slovak region of Hungary and the southern half of the traditional Prussian (later Imperial Germany) province of Silesia. The creation of Czechoslovakia had very much to do with the Treaty of Versaille.
$1:
Poland was made bigger
By giving it the northern half of Silesia and central Prussia, but not the traditional seat of Prussian power - Eastern prussia. Thus central Prussia was given over to the Poles and eastern Prussia (being wholly surrounded by territory deeded to the Poles) was effectively cut-off from the rest of Germany.
$1:
Austria hungary were split into thier representative countries as they are now
Not even close
$1:
Yugoslavia was formed after the ottoman empire the turks were defeated and thier power receded.
Yugoslavia was formed principally from the Austro-Hungarian province of Serbia and the principalitiy of Montenegro. The Croat and Kosovar areas of the Ottoman Empire were added as a counterbalance to a possible strong Serbian state.
Well, I've got to go off to work (again). I'd like to continue to dissect your laughable retelling of history at a later time, but in the meantime perhaps you could do a better job of informing yourself first.
BTW - it is spelled "Anschluss" and it means "to include". The opposite is "Ausschluss": "to exclude". There is no Aunshlas. In the case of Austria, they wanted very much to be included in greater Germany (more than the Germans wanted to include them), but were forbidden to do so by the Treaty of Versaille and, later, by the League of Nations. When Otto von Bismarck formed Imperial Germany (the Second Reich) he deliberately excluded Austria, from fears that the elite there would exert too much influence. That exclusion is properly referred to as the "Ausschluss".
BartSimpson @ Wed May 18, 2005 4:18 pm
Bush going to war without UN support is bad.
Clinton going to war without UN support is good.
Got it.