Why Israel will always hold onto the moral highground
ShepherdsDog @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:36 pm
We are now seeing an escalation of violence targetting Israeli civilians in the West Bank by terrorist factions of the Fatah party.
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The Israeli military said gunmen opened fire on a bus packed with people outside Gush Etzion settlement bloc south of Jerusalem, killing two women and a 15-year-old boy and wounding four others.
Shortly after, Palestinian gunmen wounded two Israelis at an intersection outside Eli settlement in central West Bank.
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades – which has ties to the dominant Fatah party – claimed responsibility for the drive-by shootings.
"This is taste of even more to come," al-Aqsa said in a statement.
Shortly after, Palestinian gunmen wounded two Israelis at an intersection outside Eli settlement in central West Bank.
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades – which has ties to the dominant Fatah party – claimed responsibility for the drive-by shootings.
"This is taste of even more to come," al-Aqsa said in a statement.
The IDF on the other hand has only been targetting legitimate targets and has been doing everything possible to minimize collateral casualties. The murderous acts the Palestinian gangs perpetrated were the results of recent arrests
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The group said it was retaliating the hundreds of Palestinian militants captured by the Israeli army during repeated raids in the West Bank since the Gaza pullout.
In the recent weeks since Israel has pulled out of Gaza, we've seen Palestinian factions turn on one another. Fatah gunmen have clashed with Hamas gunmen in Gaza since their common prey, the Israeli settler has left the region. Once again, to quote former Israeli foreign minister Abba Eben, "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."
full story
Tman1 @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:37 pm
Both Israel and Palestine need to grab a brain and get with the 21st century.
ShepherdsDog @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:51 pm
Tman1 Tman1:
Both Israel and Palestine need to grab a brain and get with the 21st century.
The Israeli government has proven it can and will deal harshly with extremist elements within it's society. Isn't it about time the Palestinians demonstrate the same resolve? It 's also hard for Israel to move into the 21st century when it is battling 12 th century barbarians, on all fronts, on a daily basis.
Tman1 @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:56 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Tman1 Tman1:
Both Israel and Palestine need to grab a brain and get with the 21st century.
The Israeli government has proven it can and will deal harshly with extremist elements within it's society. Isn't it about time the Palestinians demonstrate the same resolve? It 's also hard for Israel to move into the 21st century when it is battling 12 th century barbarians, on all fronts, on a daily basis.
Just looking at it from a neutral perspective. There is no right side to this as the Israelis have commited their own attrocites over the years. Both sides have proven that they will do whatever it takes in order to get what they want.
Constantinople @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:03 pm
Israel is fighting for survival. The "Palestinians" are fighting to eradicate Israel.
Long live Israel.
ShepherdsDog @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:05 pm
You can't really call it a neutral perspective because you live in and grew up in a culture where your day to day existence is/was secure. The Israelis are a little paranoid and neurotic for good cause. Being surrounded by people who only want to destroy you, no matter how many concessions you make, is a little unsettling. Having your supermarkets, children, schools, public transit and places of worship being targets of terrorists would make me edgy too. You are using our standards to judge something so completely out of context, with what most Canadians are used of.
Tman1 @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:10 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
You can't really call it a neutral perspective because you live in and grew up in a culture where your day to day existence is/was secure. The Israelis are a little paranoid and neurotic for good cause. Being surrounded by people who only want to destroy you, no matter how many concessions you make, is a little unsettling. Having your supermarkets, children, schools, public transit and places of worship being targets of terrorists would make me edgy too. You are using our standards to judge something so completely out of context, with what most Canadians are used of.
No, i'm using my own standards to judge, what standards are you using? Maybe your the one using other biased standards.The very fact your unwilling to see others perspectives makes me question your take on this. Your saying Isreal is completely innocent? Wow, good one. Funny thing is is that I don't even disagree with you, I just have a more broad opinion.
Motorcycleboy @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:21 pm
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"Tman1"Just looking at it from a neutral perspective. There is no right side to this as the Israelis have commited their own attrocites over the years.
Israel didn't invade it's Arab neighbours 4 times in the last century. Israel has bombed Palestinians and targeted their terrorist leaders on numerous occasions, but makes a concerted attempt to minmize non-combatant casualties. Israel has also imprisoned many of it's own citizens who belong to the hard Israeli right and have murdered innocent Palestinians. The same can't be said of the Arabs.
Please, cite a few of those Israeli atrocities t-man. Try starting with the "Jenin Massacre."
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T-man: Both sides have proven that they will do whatever it takes in order to get what they want.
Yeah, those damn Jews. Who do they think they are, wanting to be left alone to exist in peace. Bastards!
ShepherdsDog @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:28 pm
No, Israel isn't completely blameless. I never said they were. It's just that they seem to be the only party there ready to make concessions, willing to exercise control over extremist factions within their society. If there's a crime commited by a member of the IDF or police, it is openly investigated and guilty parties are charged according to the law.
You said you perspective was neutral and I merely pointed out that it couldn't really be so because it is out of context with what goes on their. If you had initially said you were judging things by your standards I wouldn't have disagreed with the neutrality issue. I don't claim neutrality, as my own views are biased too. Like you I wasn't raised in the turmoil and violence of the Middle East, I grew up in the peace of Victoria and rural Manitoba. I wish that the people of Israel, Jew and Arab alike, could have known that peace.
Tman1 @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:42 pm
Merely saying both sides have commited wrong doings to each other and not one side is innocent. I suggested a neutral side since so many are quick to side with Isreal (see the above post by Mr.Fruitloop). My opinions are along side yours but at least i'm willing to look at the bigger picture.
P.S - Don't claim to know where I grew up and speak for me about my views thank you very much.
dgthe3 @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:43 pm
Even if Israel has commited what i will call 'questionable acts', given the situation they are in, i think that is it tollerable. They are faced surrounded by nations, and many people i suspect, that would like to see nothing better than to eradicate Isreal. If that were me, i'd be a little bit twitchy. And if i ever saw somebody kill some of my fellow countrymen out of hate, i wouldn't mind taking a few of them. Motorcycleboy mentioned that they haven't invaded their neighbors 4 times over the last century, well things don't really count untill 1948. They were invaded in 1948 and 1967, Suez is a a little murky. They were the aggressors in the 6 day war, and they did invade Lebanon in the 80's. To me it looks like an even score in all out war, though Israels neighbors got the worst of it every single time.
ShepherdsDog @ Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:55 pm
Tman1 Tman1:
Merely saying both sides have commited wrong doings to each other and not one side is innocent. I suggested a neutral side since so many are quick to side with Isreal (see the above post by Mr.Fruitloop). My opinions are along side yours but at least i'm willing to look at the bigger picture.
P.S - Don't claim to know where I grew up and speak for me about my views thank you very much.
P.S - Don't claim to know where I grew up and speak for me about my views thank you very much.
Sorry, I gave you the benefit of the doubt of growing up normal in a peaceful community. I won't make that mistake again.