Can't speak English or French?
andyt @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:59 am
$1:
Can't speak English or French? Expect a tough time on job market: report
Immigrants who work in ethnic "enclaves" in major cities earn less than other Canadians and have a tougher time adapting to the economy, an internal federal government document states.
"Studies found that enclaves have a negative impact on the earnings growth for male and female immigrants," says a report obtained by Vancouver-based immigration lawyer Richard Kurland under the Access to Information Act.
The point was included in a federal report prepared in early 2011 assessing minimum language standards for immigrants brought to Canada under the provincial nominee or PN program.
The report focused on concerns within Citizenship and Immigration Canada about the ability of PN applicants in some provinces to speak one of Canada's two official languages. Immigration Minister Jason Kenney recently acted on those concerns, announcing in April that PN applicants in semi-and low-skilled jobs will be required, starting July 1, to meet minimum language standards in English or French.
More than 38,000 workers and their families came to Canada in 2011 under the program, which has become hugely popular with provincial governments seeking to fill labour shortages.
The report obtained by Kurland cited research showing immigrants who can adequately speak English or French have earnings comparable to Canadian-born counterparts.
But those who don't speak either official language struggle in the labour force and often end up working in "enclave" immigrant communities in major cities.
The report said the number of immigrants working in a non-official language jumped 14 per cent between 2001 and 2006, accounting for 611,000 people.
Roughly one-in-six immigrants only used a non-official language at work and, of this group, almost 60 per cent indicated they couldn't conduct a conversation in English or French.
"While some researchers point to the possibility of such immigrants becoming employed in an ethnically sheltered (enclave) economy, several recent studies have shown that there are many disadvantages to doing this," the report states.
Several studies have shown jobs in enclaves are mostly in the lower-paying service industries and can keep employees in a rut.
"Exposure to one's group reduces the accumulation of skills specific to the host country's labour market, decreases the knowledge of the local native language and impedes immigrants' economic progress," the report says.
A federally funded 2009 research paper by University of B.C. geography professor Daniel Hiebert looking at immigrant enclaves in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal, said residents in those areas have higher unemployment levels and are "slightly" more dependent on the government.
Some immigrant support organizations in B.C. have mixed feelings about the findings.
Thomas Tam, CEO of Vancouver-based S.U.C.C.E.S.S., said ethnic communities shouldn't be looked at as a "static phenomenon," stressing many immigrants are following different transition paths within a given community.
Those with "high-language proficiency in English and in French ... may [transition] easier," he said. "But for some whose language is not that good, or they may have some emotional or psychological needs, they may need to get some support from their ethnic community."
Chris Friesen, director of B.C.'s Immigrant Services Society, said the challenges surrounding immigrants and the Canadian workforce are very complex.
"I don't believe [ethnic enclaves are] the definitive reason why immigrants would have a difficult time," he said, instead citing immigrants' skills and whether they are recognized in Canada as a better determinant of their economic performance. Friesen added Metro Vancouver's pricey housing market influences where immigrants choose to work and live.
Immigrants who work in ethnic "enclaves" in major cities earn less than other Canadians and have a tougher time adapting to the economy, an internal federal government document states.
"Studies found that enclaves have a negative impact on the earnings growth for male and female immigrants," says a report obtained by Vancouver-based immigration lawyer Richard Kurland under the Access to Information Act.
The point was included in a federal report prepared in early 2011 assessing minimum language standards for immigrants brought to Canada under the provincial nominee or PN program.
The report focused on concerns within Citizenship and Immigration Canada about the ability of PN applicants in some provinces to speak one of Canada's two official languages. Immigration Minister Jason Kenney recently acted on those concerns, announcing in April that PN applicants in semi-and low-skilled jobs will be required, starting July 1, to meet minimum language standards in English or French.
More than 38,000 workers and their families came to Canada in 2011 under the program, which has become hugely popular with provincial governments seeking to fill labour shortages.
The report obtained by Kurland cited research showing immigrants who can adequately speak English or French have earnings comparable to Canadian-born counterparts.
But those who don't speak either official language struggle in the labour force and often end up working in "enclave" immigrant communities in major cities.
The report said the number of immigrants working in a non-official language jumped 14 per cent between 2001 and 2006, accounting for 611,000 people.
Roughly one-in-six immigrants only used a non-official language at work and, of this group, almost 60 per cent indicated they couldn't conduct a conversation in English or French.
"While some researchers point to the possibility of such immigrants becoming employed in an ethnically sheltered (enclave) economy, several recent studies have shown that there are many disadvantages to doing this," the report states.
Several studies have shown jobs in enclaves are mostly in the lower-paying service industries and can keep employees in a rut.
"Exposure to one's group reduces the accumulation of skills specific to the host country's labour market, decreases the knowledge of the local native language and impedes immigrants' economic progress," the report says.
A federally funded 2009 research paper by University of B.C. geography professor Daniel Hiebert looking at immigrant enclaves in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal, said residents in those areas have higher unemployment levels and are "slightly" more dependent on the government.
Some immigrant support organizations in B.C. have mixed feelings about the findings.
Thomas Tam, CEO of Vancouver-based S.U.C.C.E.S.S., said ethnic communities shouldn't be looked at as a "static phenomenon," stressing many immigrants are following different transition paths within a given community.
Those with "high-language proficiency in English and in French ... may [transition] easier," he said. "But for some whose language is not that good, or they may have some emotional or psychological needs, they may need to get some support from their ethnic community."
Chris Friesen, director of B.C.'s Immigrant Services Society, said the challenges surrounding immigrants and the Canadian workforce are very complex.
"I don't believe [ethnic enclaves are] the definitive reason why immigrants would have a difficult time," he said, instead citing immigrants' skills and whether they are recognized in Canada as a better determinant of their economic performance. Friesen added Metro Vancouver's pricey housing market influences where immigrants choose to work and live.
What's going on that provinces are sponsoring low skilled workers who can't speak English or French? Is that really who we need to be bringing into this country?
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/speak+Engli ... z1xkhVqE2r
QBC @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:19 am
andyt andyt:
What's going on that provinces are sponsoring low skilled workers who can't speak English or French? Is that really who we need to be bringing into this country?
Of course we need them andy. It's been happening for centuries, it's called the slave trade. (No racism intended in any way) These people, no matter their education or skills, are now left to do the crap jobs we need done, but don't want to do ourselves. Kinda like all the Newfies in Alberta....
bootlegga @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:18 am
I have no doubt that it true Andy - if you can't speak English or French, the number of jobs you can apply for and have a chance at getting is going to be small indeed.
I know a guy from China who speaks English poorly and the last time he got laid off, it took him almost a year to find a new job, because despite his prowess with computers, his verbal communication is terrible and he fared poorly in interviews. And he's not alone, there are enclaves all over the country where first-generation immigrants can survive - albeit at a lower standard of living than many Canadians.
But his kid - his kid speaks English just as well as probably anyone you know - if you spoke to him on the phone, you'd never know he was born in China.
meagan @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:36 am
It's odd how kids that learn other languages when they are very young don't seem to have an accent, unlike adults that learn always have the accent of thier native tongue.
Regina @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:03 am
meagan meagan:
It's odd how kids that learn other languages when they are very young don't seem to have an accent, unlike adults that learn always have the accent of thier native tongue.
It's because of the way our brains are wired. Typically the language you speak when you go through puberty is the language "accent" you will acquire for the rest of your life. There are variables to this like being able to speak other languages at that age and the ability to work on the new language through speech therapy.
Brenda @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:10 am
It's funny. My kids speak Dutch with an English accent, and I speak English with a Dutch accent 
andyt @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:21 am
Brenda Brenda:
It's funny. My kids speak Dutch with an English accent, and I speak English with a Dutch accent
I posted this article with you in mind Brenda, and your contention that immigrants must speak an official language and have skills needed in Canada. The article says that 10% of immigrants can't function in an official language and that provinces are sponsoring immigrants with no skills including language abilities. Guess like QBC says, they make good slaves.
Unsound @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:23 am
Brenda Brenda:
It's funny. My kids speak Dutch with an English accent, and I speak English with a Dutch accent
Pretty much what my mom says
Except with Danish of course. My sister's accent is terrible but I've been told mine actually sounds quite nice. Sexy even 
BartSimpson @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:34 am
This would not happen if immigrants were required to be coversant in English or French before they immigrated.
Brenda @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:38 am
andyt andyt:
Brenda Brenda:
It's funny. My kids speak Dutch with an English accent, and I speak English with a Dutch accent
I posted this article with you in mind Brenda, and your contention that immigrants must speak an official language and have skills needed in Canada. The article says that 10% of immigrants can't function in an official language and that provinces are sponsoring immigrants with no skills including language abilities. Guess like QBC says, they make good slaves.
Absolutely. I cannot imagine how anyone can survive for years without even trying to understand the language...
A lot of first generation Spanish people, Moroccans and Turks in The Netherlands don't speak a word Dutch. They take their 9 year old children with them to the drs office to translate for them. Can you imagine???
Strutz @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:16 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
This would not happen if immigrants were required to be coversant in English or French before they immigrated.
True. Apparently this will be the case soon.
$1:
The report focused on concerns within Citizenship and Immigration Canada about the ability of PN applicants in some provinces to speak one of Canada's two official languages. Immigration Minister Jason Kenney recently acted on those concerns, announcing in April that PN applicants in semi-and low-skilled jobs will be required, starting July 1, to meet minimum language standards in English or French.
I'm not sure what the definition of "minimum" is these days when it comes to language standards. The equivalent of a certain grade level of comprehension?
raydan @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:26 am
meagan meagan:
It's odd how kids that learn other languages when they are very young don't seem to have an accent, unlike adults that learn always have the accent of thier native tongue.
I learned both French and English at the same time.
I can still speak both without an accent.
I can also imitate other accents quite easily.
Brenda @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:28 am
Strutz Strutz:
$1:
The report focused on concerns within Citizenship and Immigration Canada about the ability of PN applicants in some provinces to speak one of Canada's two official languages. Immigration Minister Jason Kenney recently acted on those concerns, announcing in April that PN applicants in semi-and low-skilled jobs will be required, starting July 1, to meet minimum language standards in English or French.
I'm not sure what the definition of "minimum" is these days when it comes to language standards. The equivalent of a certain grade level of comprehension?
Probably enough to understand what they are told to do, and speak it enough to say "Yes Sir".
Without sarcasm tho, I sure hope that the standard IELTS test will be mandatory.
JaredMilne @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:52 am
raydan raydan:
I learned both French and English at the same time.
I can still speak both without an accent.
I can also imitate other accents quite easily.
I can still speak both without an accent.
I can also imitate other accents quite easily.
English is my first language, and the one I spoke at home, although I mostly spoke French when I was in school, including the six years I spent at the U of A's francophone faculty.
The funny thing is that a couple of the people at that faculty claimed that I spoke French like a Franco-Ontarian, in that I apparently rolled my "R"s, or something like that.
During the summers I spent in Quebec, I think I also pleasantly surprised a number of the locals by how well I spoke French to them, as a number of them complimented me on it.
Brenda Brenda:
Without sarcasm tho, I sure hope that the standard IELTS test will be mandatory.
See, this is one of the things I like about Stephen Harper. While I have my issues with some of the long-term effects of his policies, I think he's done a lot of very good work on various meat-and-potatoes areas where change was long overdue-requiring immigrants to speak good English and/or French, making the Canadian Wheat Board voluntary, toughening up sentences for violent criminal offenders, etc.
CanadianJeff @ Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:21 pm
As long as they don't apply the "must speak English or French" to refugees it's time to bring in some laws on this stuff.
Hell I'd even be happy if someone had to commit to English or French classes before coming here. I know I can't be the only one tired of seeing the Chinese and other communities segregate themselves from society at large.