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[QUOTE]Although I am not in the know about how the links get posted, you wouldn't really want people thinking that vive thinks that the Fraser Inst is a think tank, now would you? They just had their conservative love in to celebrate 30 years, Harper, Klein, were the big celebrants! The idea is to be a think tank, not a bias, conservative policy maker, Klein says he used their policies to design his government! If they want to be a pro-conservative group then they should so declare.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Whelan you have to get it through your head that left-wing and right-wing are not equivalent to right and wrong. They are both different approaches to solving problems. Sometimes a left-wing approach is best, sometimes a right-wing approach is best, and sometimes a completely non-partisan approach is the way to go. You can't declare that only New Democrats or other left-wing parties aren't dedicated to sovereignty. From what I see, there are people from all branches of political thinking on this site promoting patriotism and independence. I notice that a lot of conservatives here feel insulted sometimes, and I can understand why. It's fair to say their solutions are not always given proper attention and are sometimes disregarded as right-wing parrot talk. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'> If we want to see progress we will have to put our differences aside.

   

My point was: 'If they want to be a pro-conservative group then they should so declare.' <br />Nobody is in the dark as to the Tommy Douglas Institute are they, I mean he started Universal Health Care in this country; but CD Howe and Fraser do not declare themselves the corporate think tank do they? Tommy Douglas Institute is about finding healthy solutions to today's challenge which will better support humanity without damaging our environment. Can the same be said about CD Howe and Fraser? <br /> <br />That is my point, not whether they are right or left, right or wrong. Just transparencey is my point. We should know who is saying what, before we decide the importance of the statement, because the people are looking for ideas which support humanity,the environment etc. not corporations' agendas. <br /> <br />If an idea is good for corporations, is it good for people? That is the question? Sometimes it could be, but generally it is not.

   

[QUOTE BY= z_whalen] From what I see, there are people from all branches of political thinking on this site promoting patriotism and independence. I notice that a lot of conservatives here feel insulted sometimes, and I can understand why. It's fair to say their solutions are not always given proper attention and are sometimes disregarded as right-wing parrot talk. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'> If we want to see progress we will have to put our differences aside.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Incorrect. What we are dealing with, and in extension, what threatens our way of life in Canada is neoconservatism. The neocons have nothing to do with Canada's tradition of Red Toryism and the remnants of our national and respectible Tory party died with the take-over/high-jacking of the title of Conservativism by the neocons represented by the Alliance Party. <br /> <br />If you are conservative, you should have no reason to feel offended because the Tories are not the ones who are being criticised, rather it is the neocons who have disguised themselves as Tories who are the target of our disgust.

   

[QUOTE BY= Canuck] [QUOTE BY= z_whalen] From what I see, there are people from all branches of political thinking on this site promoting patriotism and independence. I notice that a lot of conservatives here feel insulted sometimes, and I can understand why. It's fair to say their solutions are not always given proper attention and are sometimes disregarded as right-wing parrot talk. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'> If we want to see progress we will have to put our differences aside.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Incorrect. What we are dealing with, and in extension, what threatens our way of life in Canada is neoconservatism. The neocons have nothing to do with Canada's tradition of Red Toryism and the remnants of our national and respectible Tory party died with the take-over/high-jacking of the title of Conservativism by the neocons represented by the Alliance Party. <br /> <br />If you are conservative, you should have no reason to feel offended because the Tories are not the ones who are being criticised, rather it is the neocons who have disguised themselves as Tories who are the target of our disgust.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />You are about as "enlightened' as Whelan Constance! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> <br /> <br />I don't even want to get into the schism between Reform, and thte Federeal PC. 96% of both parties voted to combine. Nobody was "hijacked." You always have the Progressive Canadian Party if what happened doesn't suit you. <br /> <br />As for neoconservatism...I think the air is pretty thin being so high up on you soap box! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'> <br /> <br />How about I make the arguement you just stated, but insert "NDP" or "Socialist" where you haad neoconserv, etc. If we both wanted to waste further time, we could argue about how the "right" or the "left" is trying to destroy Canada..... <br /> <br />I LIKE TO THINK THAT THE BROAD SPECTRUM IS WORKING IN THE BEST INTEREST OF CANADA. WE MAY NOT HAVE THE SAME VIEWS, BUT THE END TARGET IS MOST DEFINITELY THE SAME.

   

[QUOTE BY= whelan costen] My point was: 'If they want to be a pro-conservative group then they should so declare.' <br />Nobody is in the dark as to the Tommy Douglas Institute are they, I mean he started Universal Health Care in this country; but CD Howe and Fraser do not declare themselves the corporate think tank do they? Tommy Douglas Institute is about finding healthy solutions to today's challenge which will better support humanity without damaging our environment. Can the same be said about CD Howe and Fraser? <br /> <br />That is my point, not whether they are right or left, right or wrong. Just transparencey is my point. We should know who is saying what, before we decide the importance of the statement, because the people are looking for ideas which support humanity,the environment etc. not corporations' agendas. <br /> <br />If an idea is good for corporations, is it good for people? That is the question? Sometimes it could be, but generally it is not. [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I can't believe it...you don't get it do you. You are totally oblivious to anything other than your party's agenda..... <br /> <br />I've only been here a little while and already I'm tired of your posts simply spewing politically correct background noise on behalf of the NDP. <br /> <br /> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'> <br /> <br />Transperancy...as long as it fits your views...and not mine eh? If it aint NDP, its those darn Corporations and the "secret" Conservatie agenda? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'> <br />Only the Tommy Douglas Institute is a fine unstanding group, but not someone who thinks outside your box? <br /> <br /> <br />The Fraser Institute has made recommendations regarding Health Care. But I guess they are not considered viable cause they don't come from an Organization that shares your view? What about people who think opposite ofyou....should they automatically disgard the input from the Tommy Douglas Institute? <br /> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> <br /> <br />I don't think so. <br /> <br /> <br />Even before your response, (if any), I know you can't comprehend thinking outside your spectrum of the political band. Resolving anything that has to do with corporations as bad. So sad, and you want to represent people with such a variety of views in Alberta..from left to right..top to bottom........... <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />

   

"I don't even want to get into the schism between Reform, and thte Federeal PC. 96% of both parties voted to combine. Nobody was "hijacked." You always have the Progressive Canadian Party if what happened doesn't suit you." <br /> <br />Oh please... <br /> <br />Don't you remember the Alliance leadership bragging about how they intended to join the PC party so that they could vote twice on the matter while they urged their party's membership to do the same. The fact is, the Size of the Alliance membership alone was enough to highjack the entire process in favour of the merger. <br /> <br />Then there is that backstabber, Peter Mackay, who broke his written agreement with David Orchard to never merge the PCs with the Alliance. Mackay wouldn't have become leader in the first place if it wasn't for the support Orchard lent to him. <br /> <br />How else do you explain the exodus of the PC leadership from the merged party? <br /> <br />"How about I make the arguement you just stated, but insert "NDP" or "Socialist" where you haad neoconserv, etc. If we both wanted to waste further time, we could argue about how the "right" or the "left" is trying to destroy Canada..... " <br /> <br />That doesn't prove anything since the NDP IS socialist AND they also have well known and widely supported stances on social issues. The Conservative party on the underhand has just recently cleared house of many of it's most popular and widely known members who took their traditional and well known Tory values with them. <br /> <br />Now what can be said for the new party? Isn't it still without a constitution? As for the leadership, harper himself has said he was not interested ever becoming a Tory again and he has made his views clear in this regard. In short, the only way the likes of harper could ever get significant support east of Manitoba is by highjacking the Conservative name. <br /> <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.ftlcomm.com/ensign/ensign2/politicsNpoliticalSc/orchard/notconservative/notConservative.html">not Conservative</a> <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/party/unite-right/opposition.html">Opposition to uniting the right</a>

   

Civiltech: 'I've only been here a little while and already I'm tired of your posts simply spewing politically correct background noise on behalf of the NDP.' <br /> <br />Indeed you have only been here a little while, perhaps you should go back and read a year or so's worth of posts, the fact that I am running as an NDP does not make what I say spewing on behalf of....I am entitled to my opinion just as you are, and I have yet to attack you for your views. Just because I don't happen to agree with corporate rule, doesn't make what I say any less relevant to your views. <br /> <br />You keep saying I don't get it, however I do get it, what I don't appreciate is your tone, that I am someone less informed because I hold NDP values. Tell me does the CD Howe or Fraser claim to be a 'think tank' which implies thinking, research of all views, or do they declare themselves a corporate viewpoint to promote corporate thinking? <br /> <br />If the people of Canada are to be told that some think tank which implies some unbiased research, has suggested some new policy etc, then the people should be told if there is a bias; that is my point. Not whether or not one holds more value than the other. People are entitled to know the motives, or the bias of information being reported, that is my point. That is transparency. <br /> <br />I am transparent in my statements, no hidden agenda, I tell it the way I see it and from my point of view, corporate rule means the destruction of democracy and the social systems, which I believe are vital to a society. There is nothing which states that I must declare to the readers here that I am a candidate for the NDP, I have done so in order to be quite honest. <br /> <br />As far as your statement: 'You are totally oblivious to anything other than your party's agenda.....' I wasn't born or formed into an NDP, I made an informed decision,after much research into the other parties, because I happen to believe that what is happening to this country is abhorent, and I believe that change is necessary, my views happen to fit quite nicely with theirs. <br /> <br />As for your comment: 'So sad, and you want to represent people with such a variety of views in Alberta..from left to right..top to bottom.........' I assume that you are suggesting that the people of Alberta with all those views are being represented by a majority Conservative government now? <br /> <br />My point remains this; the governments both federally and provincially in Alberta, are being controlled by corporations and not the people. Democracy which is what we are suppose to have in Canada, is government formed by the people to support the people, that is what I stand for and I like to know what bias a 'think tank' has before I put any credibility in it. <br /> <br />You can call the NDP information spewing if you like, however I believe the NDP has stayed true to their original goal which is to represent the people, with policies that sustain the environment not sacrifice it, first and foremost. Call it what you like, but when the questions are asked I will answer honestly, if you don't like it, then don't read my posts. If you are tired already, can't help you, I have read many posts on vive which I disagree with and I have debated the issues, but I don't attack people for having a different point of view. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'>

   

Here is what I see as different in disclosure of bias. <br />From their websites: <br /> <br />Fraser Institute: <br />Celebrating our 30th year as an independent public policy organization, The Fraser Institute focuses on the role competitive markets play in providing for the economic and social well-being of all Canadians and as an international forum for policy ideas. <br /> <br />Tommy Douglas <br />The Tommy Douglas Research Institute is an independent non-profit Canadian economic and social research and educational organization. Named after T.C. Douglas, the former Premier of Saskatchewan and acknowledged father of Medicare in Canada, the Institute's main objective is the redirection of public attention to the respective role of both the large business sector and governments in providing for the well-being of Canadians. <br /> <br /> <br />My impression is: The Tommy Douglas institute says what bias lies within it, who it serves, while the Fraser statement does not declare its corporate influence. While Fraser declares its objective to influence policy, Douglas declares its objective to influence people. See I believe that educated, informed people ought to influence policy,(call it democracy) not the think tank itself!

   

[QUOTE BY= whelan costen] Here is what I see as different in disclosure of bias. <br />From their websites: <br /> <br />Fraser Institute: <br />Celebrating our 30th year as an independent public policy organization, The Fraser Institute focuses on the role competitive markets play in providing for the economic and social well-being of all Canadians and as an international forum for policy ideas. <br /> <br />Tommy Douglas <br />The Tommy Douglas Research Institute is an independent non-profit Canadian economic and social research and educational organization. Named after T.C. Douglas, the former Premier of Saskatchewan and acknowledged father of Medicare in Canada, the Institute's main objective is the redirection of public attention to the respective role of both the large business sector and governments in providing for the well-being of Canadians. <br /> <br /> <br />My impression is: The Tommy Douglas institute says what bias lies within it, who it serves, while the Fraser statement does not declare its corporate influence. While Fraser declares its objective to influence policy, Douglas declares its objective to influence people. See I believe that educated, informed people ought to influence policy,(call it democracy) not the think tank itself![/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />I think the Tommy Douglas insitute is merely a bunch of left wing socialists looking to present there views without being tacked with the unpopular NDP stigma. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> <br /> <br />And you have a view of the Fraser Institute. <br /> <br />Big deal, we are both right or wrong...it doesn't matter......we could argue this till the cows come home. <br /> <br />Now, if we are gonna publish the site of the Tommy Douglas Institute here on vive, why not the Fraser Institute? (By the way, I havn't requested it..but I'm thinking about it now<img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> ) <br /> <br />I know you just can't understand this wailin'. And I think this will be my last post on this thread cause it's obious nothing is getting through. <br /> <br />THE VIVE WEBSITE HAS SEEN THE VAILIDITY AND HAS NO PROBLEM POSTING WHAT IS PRO CANADIAN INSIGHT. WHETHER IT IS RIGHT OR LEFT IS NOT THE ISSUE. TO ARGUE WHETHER ONE SITE HAS IMPORTANT INFORMATION AS OPPOSED TO ANOTHER JUST LEADS TO SCREENING, AND AN OBVOIUS POLITICAL BIAS. CANADIANS ARE MADE UP FROM A WHOLE SPECTRUM OF POLITICAL VIEWS, THAT IS WHAT IS NICE ABOUT VIVE. THEY POST IT ALL. THATS HOW WE LEARN. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'>

   

I have to be laughing my head off by now. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'> What a funny conversation. You can label yourselves wahtever you want, but it has nothing to do with the best policy debate--the best policy is always pragmatic, thoughtful, not ideological. <br /> <br />I wish this party crap would just go away. <br /> <br /> <br />As for the Frasier-Institute--they're apparaently U.S. funded.

   

Great point Perturbed, and civiltech,I do believe that it was your attacking me about my political affiliation which started the discussion. I expressed my opinion of what I think of the Fraser Institute, you attacked me for being NDP. See any difference. Also I don't recall stuping to the low of calling you names, so far you have attempted to bastardize my name on several different occassions, does that somehow make your feeling of self-worth higher. You lose all credibility as far as I am concerned, when your posts are littered with name calling!

   

CivilTech (And all newcomers!): Please do not make posts personal. Argue, discuss, debate. But do not make it personal. And watch the use of the caps-loc key <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'> <br /> <br />Thanks <br />The Guy with the "Banned" and "Delete" buttons. <br /> <br />

   

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb] CivilTech (And all newcomers!): Please do not make posts personal. Argue, discuss, debate. But do not make it personal. And watch the use of the caps-loc key <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'> <br /> <br />Thanks <br />The Guy with the "Banned" and "Delete" buttons. <br /> <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Any response on the Canadian - Israeli Committe website? I still don't see it up. <br /> <br />

   

I have requested for the second time through the links section that the Canadian - Israeli Committee site be posted. <br /> <br />As well, under the activist title, that <br />http://www.chargemoore.com be posted. <br />What could be more of a threat to Canadian Independance than a US foreign publicly trying to steer Canadian Electoins? <br /> <br />

   

[QUOTE BY= whelan costen] Great point Perturbed, and civiltech,I do believe that it was your attacking me about my political affiliation which started the discussion. I expressed my opinion of what I think of the Fraser Institute, you attacked me for being NDP. See any difference. Also I don't recall stuping to the low of calling you names, so far you have attempted to bastardize my name on several different occassions, does that somehow make your feeling of self-worth higher. You lose all credibility as far as I am concerned, when your posts are littered with name calling! [/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />You present the Tommy Douglas Inst. as a fair and unbiased approach, but the Frase Inst. which doesn't share you political views isn't. The fact you can't even realise this irritates me. Even Jack Layton realizes he's just jockying for position when he takes favourites, and chastizes other agency's not falling into his political view. <br /> <br />Is this the 5th post and you still don't understand? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'>

   

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