Poverty: 'The dirty secret nobody talks about'
BartSimpson @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:54 am
Avro Avro:
The relations with employee and employer is kind of a symbiont one where one cannot live without the other.
Untrue.
In Canada and the USA there is no law preventing an employee from quitting their job and starting their own business.
Employees can live without employers. And when they do they are called entrepreneurs.
freeloader @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:55 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
freeloader freeloader:
How about a higher minimum wage and executive salaries that are actually geared to a companies performance? Some of these "executives" wouldn't be walking away with much if their salaries were actually tied to their actual performance.
So says a guy named "Freeloader".
And that coming from a guy called BartSimpson. A classic underachiever!
I'm an industrial flat roofer actually. My job is quite labour intensive, thank you.
hurley_108 @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:56 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Avro Avro:
The relations with employee and employer is kind of a symbiont one where one cannot live without the other.
Untrue.
In Canada and the USA there is no law preventing an employee from quitting their job and starting their own business.
Employees can live without employers. And when they do they are called entrepreneurs.
And what's an employer without employees?
freeloader @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:02 pm
$1:
And what's an employer without employees?
Screwed!
Clogeroo @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:05 pm
$1:
I'm not saying it didn't take hard work, what I'm saying is it took hrd work and then some. Lemme speak a language you might understand: the bible. Heard of it? It's a rather popular book. I may not follow all of it, but here's one passage that speaks far more eloquently than I can:
I have seen something else under the sun:
The race is not to the swift
or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all.
Ecclesiastes 9:11
Hard work and luck puts these people into these positions. Luck to be born with inteligence. Luck to be in the right place at the right time. Luck to beat your equally qualified competitor in the interview. Luck to be born to a family that'll support university. And even if you have all those things going for you, sometimes for reasons too numerous to enumerate you still fail.
I have seen something else under the sun:
The race is not to the swift
or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all.
Ecclesiastes 9:11
Hard work and luck puts these people into these positions. Luck to be born with inteligence. Luck to be in the right place at the right time. Luck to beat your equally qualified competitor in the interview. Luck to be born to a family that'll support university. And even if you have all those things going for you, sometimes for reasons too numerous to enumerate you still fail.
So what is your point? I have bad luck therefore you with good luck give me your money? People still work hard for things and many do but not all get rewarded. My uncle worked in work camps to just pay for his university and slept outside in the woods to save money for it. Sure he is intelligent he is now an engineer but he had to work hard and save to just become one. I guess you could say his ability to work hard is just luck too. Or I guess those fat people walking around eating fast food everyday are just bad luck because they like to eat it. People have choices in life and the choices you make are what will decide your future and your life. Those who sell themselves short don’t have too, as those who are wicked don’t either. People can change their lives around and those who do I don’t think should be punished for it.
This is a capitalist economy we will always have someone making more than someone else. But the class system is not as great as it used to be it is actually possible to earn more money. We aren't communists the bank teller will never earn the same as the lawyer and the lawyer probably won't make as much as the CEO. But this is an encouragement to achieve more for you make more money which buys more for you and your family.
PluggyRug @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:12 pm
hurley_108 hurley_108:
hwacker hwacker:
YeeHaw, I've been waiting years for a crazy to blow up.
shit you just made my day dipper.
shit you just made my day dipper.
Name calling and dismissal. The typical arguments of a right winger. Can't win on teh basis of a sound argument so he resorts to bullying. Why did I expect more?
Sound argument????
Thats just a far left rant.
I grew up in a poor family who could not afford the send me to Grammar School and then university.
I put myself through university and then started my own business.
No hand outs, no social programmes, no nothing.
I agree that some CEO pay is way over the top, but don't call me for making something of my life.
hurley_108 @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:42 pm
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
hwacker hwacker:
YeeHaw, I've been waiting years for a crazy to blow up.
shit you just made my day dipper.
shit you just made my day dipper.
Name calling and dismissal. The typical arguments of a right winger. Can't win on teh basis of a sound argument so he resorts to bullying. Why did I expect more?
Sound argument????
Thats just a far left rant.
I grew up in a poor family who could not afford the send me to Grammar School and then university.
I put myself through university and then started my own business.
No hand outs, no social programmes, no nothing.
I agree that some CEO pay is way over the top, but don't call me for making something of my life.
The government didn't at all subsidize your university education? You paid 100% of the cost?
BartSimpson @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:58 pm
hurley_108 hurley_108:
And what's an employer without employees?
A self-employed sole-proprietor.
BartSimpson @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:04 pm
hurley_108 hurley_108:
The government didn't at all subsidize your university education? You paid 100% of the cost?
The government doesn't subsidize squat. The taxpayers do.
hurley_108 @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:07 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
And what's an employer without employees?
A self-employed sole-proprietor.
Uh huh. And how many of them produce SUVs? Airplanes? How many of them offer morgages? How many of them run oilsands operations? Department stores? Warehouses?
Get off it. The economy as it currently exists needs grunts. If every business was to become a self-employed sole-proprietor, we'd have un-done the industrial revolution.
Streaker @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:28 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Avro Avro:
I grew up poor in a family of 10 children in the Republic of Ireland. At the time, Ireland had one of the highest TAX rates among industrialized countries. That was five decades ago, well before the Ireland of today where progressive government social and economic policies have improved the standard of living for many people there.
No, progressive government social and economic policies have NOT improved life in Ireland. Only when the top personal and corporate tax rates were reduced from 98% to 10% did the Irish economy take off. Prior to that Ireland was deeply socialist and with no means to pay for what they wanted.
In 1988 Ireland was the poorest country in Europe in real terms and in per capita terms. Even Portugal was better off than Ireland.
Today Ireland is the second richest per capita GDP country in Europe (behind Luxembourg), and the richest country in Europe in Personal Net Domestic Income.
The Irish enjoy a GDP of $43,600 (2006 est.) per person compared to Canada's $35,200 (2006 est.).
I remember visiting my family in Sligo in 1983 and being appalled at the standard of living there at the time. My cousins were literally living in a thatched-roof stone hut that dated from the 1800's or maybe earlier. Now they have a modern, four bedroom house and the stone hut is used for a garage for the two cars while the thatched roof has been replaced with a modern roof.
Capitalism has been GREAT for Ireland.
Those transfers from the EU haven't hurt either, eh?
[web]http://www.finfacts.ie/comment/irelandeunetreceiptsbenefits.htm[/web]
Link
I applaud the generosity of "have" nations like Germany, the Netherlands, and Sweden, among others, in helping prop up poor "have not" Ireland to the tune of 34 billion Euros.
PluggyRug @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:21 pm
hurley_108 hurley_108:
The government didn't at all subsidize your university education? You paid 100% of the cost?
Yes.
As a mature student I was awarded 1 full credit, the rest was full time, including summer months.
BSc computer science.
My wife and myself bought a run down "open all hours" general store to subsidise my education. I was the CEO.
hurley_108 @ Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:46 pm
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
The government didn't at all subsidize your university education? You paid 100% of the cost?
Yes.
As a mature student I was awarded 1 full credit, the rest was full time, including summer months.
BSc computer science.
My wife and myself bought a run down "open all hours" general store to subsidise my education. I was the CEO.
Well good for you then. I didn't know they charged mature students different tuition fees than younger students out in Ontario.