Where is it going?
ziggy @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:50 pm
This is what permafrost looks like.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water. 
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
ziggy @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:57 pm
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ziggy ziggy:
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ziggy ziggy:
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Ok, so everyone agrees, the ice caps are melting. Record snow falls which will become floods in a month or so, but that don't seem like all of it. My question is where the hell is all going?
I'll be dragging core drills around the Arctic in a week or so,I'll let you know if the 27 feet of permafrost is melting or not.
Or the 10,5 feet of ice. 
Buildings in the Yukon are sinking. The lower permafrost is gone or going( I heard that in January before the cold finally came)
That's a buncha bull! They build them on stilts for a reason,if you put them at ground level the heat from the floor melts the top layer. Permafrost will allways melt from the top down,maybe 1 inch a year in the summer. Thats about it and the reason for all the water and bugs.So houses and small structures are built on stilts,huge government buildings and shopping malls are built right on the tundra,there sinking for a reason,their own buildings are melting the layer of permafrost that they might have piles driven into to stabilize that building.
What the heck is the lower permafrost? Its just frost,in the geographic center of Canada it is 27 feet deep.
Thats just a bit north of where the Arctic circle starts. and it melts from the top,I have pics.
I am only telling you what I heard. "even the buildings on the perfrost are begining to sink' (relax I will search for it) I said lower meaning closer to inhabited areas.
Long/lat of 'geographic center' please.
Didnt think you would have to ask that but here it is.
$1:
Latitude: 64° 18' 0" N (deg min sec), 64.3000° (decimal), 6418.00N (LORAN)
Longitude: 96° 4' 48" W (deg min sec), -96.0800° (decimal), 09604.80W (LORAN)
Elevation: 18 meters (59 feet) -- validated against 2 meters (7 feet) from Global 30 Arcsecond Elevation Data / USGS
WMO Id: 71926
Location: Baker Lake, NT, Canada
Longitude: 96° 4' 48" W (deg min sec), -96.0800° (decimal), 09604.80W (LORAN)
Elevation: 18 meters (59 feet) -- validated against 2 meters (7 feet) from Global 30 Arcsecond Elevation Data / USGS
WMO Id: 71926
Location: Baker Lake, NT, Canada
Im a short chopper ride north of Baker,which is the geographic center of Canada or within a few thousand feet. At camp were 6 feet above sea level.
Seagram @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:00 pm
ziggy ziggy:
This is what permafrost looks like.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water.
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water.
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4120755.stm
Seagram @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:02 pm
ziggy ziggy:
This is what permafrost looks like.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water.
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water.
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
In parts of Fairbanks, Alaska, houses and buildings lean at odd angles.
Some slump as if sliding downhill. Windows and doors inch closer and closer to the ground.
It is an architectural landscape that is becoming more familiar as the world's ice-rich permafrost gives way to thaw
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4120755.stm
ziggy @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:09 pm
Seagram Seagram:
ziggy ziggy:
This is what permafrost looks like.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water.
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water.
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4120755.stm
Right,dont build them so close to the ground and no problem,I know it looks ugly and some want their home close to the ground but it doesnt work,funny all these houses have been up for 70 years and arent sinking because they were built on stilts. Good thing the BBC is looking after us though,they must know more then the people that actually live there eh? This is from the person you qouted all these facts from.
$1:
With the exception of Russia and its long history of permafrost monitoring, global records are insufficient - often too brief or scattered - to determine the precise extent of ice loss, said Dr Nelson.
I wont disagree shits happening but lets try and keep it real ok?
Seagram @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:17 pm
ziggy ziggy:
Seagram Seagram:
ziggy ziggy:
This is what permafrost looks like.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water.
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water.
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4120755.stm
Right,dont build them so close to the ground and no problem,I know it looks ugly and some want their home close to the ground but it doesnt work,funny all these houses have been up for 70 years and arent sinking because they were built on stilts. Good thing the BBC is looking after us though,they must know more then the people that actually live there eh? This is from the person you qouted all these facts from.
$1:
With the exception of Russia and its long history of permafrost monitoring, global records are insufficient - often too brief or scattered - to determine the precise extent of ice loss, said Dr Nelson.
I wont disagree shits happening but lets try and keep it real ok?
you are asking me to keep it real? Man you sound like you are trying to convince yourself more than anything. I will say again, I didn't say it, but there it is anyway. So if the permafrost is melting what should we call it now? Maybe the 'mostly frozen up till now frost'?
ziggy @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:32 pm
Seagram Seagram:
ziggy ziggy:
Seagram Seagram:
ziggy ziggy:
This is what permafrost looks like.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water.
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
September 2006,I dug it out by hand 1 inch under the moss and lichens.
Explained why every day I came back my excavation was full of water.
It melts from the top down,just wanted to clear up this misconception.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4120755.stm
Right,dont build them so close to the ground and no problem,I know it looks ugly and some want their home close to the ground but it doesnt work,funny all these houses have been up for 70 years and arent sinking because they were built on stilts. Good thing the BBC is looking after us though,they must know more then the people that actually live there eh? This is from the person you qouted all these facts from.
$1:
With the exception of Russia and its long history of permafrost monitoring, global records are insufficient - often too brief or scattered - to determine the precise extent of ice loss, said Dr Nelson.
I wont disagree shits happening but lets try and keep it real ok?
you are asking me to keep it real? Man you sound like you are trying to convince yourself more than anything. I will say again, I didn't say it, but there it is anyway. So if the permafrost is melting what should we call it now? Maybe the 'mostly frozen up till now frost'?
Ten years from now I'll take another pic of the permafrost and you tell me if it's melting.
Something tells me it will stay the same.
Considering how it melts from the top down it would take a massive solar flare or a post from you to go through 27 feet of solid frost.
Sure the glaciers are melting,but what the permafrost is doing is a totally different thing.
Show me some pics of older buildings sinking.
if you can.
ziggy @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:44 pm
The uninformed The uninformed:
So if the permafrost is melting what should we call it now? Maybe the 'mostly frozen up till now frost'?
No,it's frozen,will be all year,the top inch or so will melt(depending on if a buildings floor is too close and heating it up)
Sorry but you clearly have an agenda here and arent interested in anything else.
So if you want to discuss this without your Bias then change your tune or talk to your self.
Seagram @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:12 pm
ziggy ziggy:
The uninformed The uninformed:
So if the permafrost is melting what should we call it now? Maybe the 'mostly frozen up till now frost'?
No,it's frozen,will be all year,the top inch or so will melt(depending on if a buildings floor is too close and heating it up)
Sorry but you clearly have an agenda here and arent interested in anything else.
So if you want to discuss this without your Bias then change your tune or talk to your self.
Your right, I have an agenda. I want to know where all this water is goin. If you say it's frozen then I will believe you. But do you argue the the Caps have not retreated?
ziggy @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:29 pm
Seagram Seagram:
ziggy ziggy:
The uninformed The uninformed:
So if the permafrost is melting what should we call it now? Maybe the 'mostly frozen up till now frost'?
No,it's frozen,will be all year,the top inch or so will melt(depending on if a buildings floor is too close and heating it up)
Sorry but you clearly have an agenda here and arent interested in anything else.
So if you want to discuss this without your Bias then change your tune or talk to your self.
Your right, I have an agenda. I want to know where all this water is goin. If you say it's frozen then I will believe you. But do you argue the the Caps have not retreated?
Somewhere I have the actuall video of that chunk of ice breaking off,I posted it her before along with the big pollution cloud that was leaving China and cruising towards Europe.
It's really quite small in the grand scheme of things.
I'll find it tonight or in the morning for you. Pretty cool how they caught it with the Sat. cams.
From what I saw on the vid,it's a tiny ice shelf,at least it looks tiny compared to the background.
fire_i @ Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:34 pm
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fire_i fire_i:
The record snowfalls at some places this year are possibly only isolated events. In Quebec City, before this week's storm, we had received less than half the snow we usually get this year. If there is a trend about snowfall increasing/decreasing extensively in certain areas since the last decades, however, then this is something that should be considered - yet I don't think it's the case.
As for ice caps, well, there's no doubt there. Some parts of South Pole are doing just fine. But yeah, Greenland, parts of Antarctica and the North polar ice do melt really damn fast.
Oh BTW, next time you want to speak of global warming, stick to the last thread that spoke of it - there's always one hanging around the forum.
As for ice caps, well, there's no doubt there. Some parts of South Pole are doing just fine. But yeah, Greenland, parts of Antarctica and the North polar ice do melt really damn fast.
Oh BTW, next time you want to speak of global warming, stick to the last thread that spoke of it - there's always one hanging around the forum.
Oh BTW my question is where is it going? So if you want to read before you speak up it that would be good, or you can go click on the other thread as you like. Either way is fine by me.
Sorry 'bout that, I know it's hard to realize this from over the internet, but I wasn't being sarcastic here nor did I want to insult you - in fact, I believe I agree with your beliefs concerning global warming. But I maintain my point that the other threads are plenty about global warming - one who reads them (even if just the last pages) will know where the discussion is leading.
Unless that isn't what you implied, in which case you should have made your first post clearer or you thread title different as they are rather misleading.
EDIT: Alright, I think I get it now : you wanted to know where all the water from melting permafrost/glaciers/ice caps is going. "My question is where the hell is all going?", to quote you, could also be interpretated as "My question is, what the Hell is going on?", hence the misconception. My bad. Sorry for the confusion.