http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-gra ... 56355.html

Heard her interviewed on CBC. Good stuff.

For those who don't read:

   

I read and Fatwa can be for most misleading. Fatwa's touch on a number of subjects, but many in the West do not understand that.
As to moderates, she wants[list=][/list] a full fledged democracy, well it like anything takes time.
As to the extremists, the more you the Govts tolerate them, the more power they gain, until they come for you.

   

She says fundamentalists are not moderates. I agree, not just Muslim, but any fundamentalists, religious or otherwise.

The title comes from some Sufis who were told to stop making music and dancing because it was un-Islamic, that was their reply.

Yes, it takes time. The interviewer asked here what we can do to support true moderate Muslims. I think her answer was read the book and listen to what the true moderates suggest. I do know for sure that demonizing all Muslims a la FD is not the way to go about it - just drive them into the enemy camp. A moderate Muslim is challenged to accept other religions as equally valid (many Christians are also unable to do this). A moderate non-Muslim is challenged to accept moderate Islam as equally valid, otherwise there will never be a chance for peace.

   

A fatwa is just a religious opinion by someone claiming to be a religious leader. For example, a fatwa could simply be to say that it's ok to eat non-halal food if the alternative is starvation, or that its ok to miss morning prayer if you are working to support your family at that time.

For Sunni's, they are like many protestant christian demonincations in that they do not have a "pope" figure or central church that issues official edicts for all followers. Any average person can claim to be an Imam and declare a 'fatwa' on whatever subject - whether it is completely ignored or even heard depends on that individual's popularity and the following he's been able to develop.

   

The next fatwa.....

There will be no more fatwa's, plumpwa's, obesewa's.

Diet and exercise will become the norm.

   

Rather than start another thread, I think I'll post this here, as it's yet another example of Muzzies trying to impose their 'values' on civilized folk.
Bacon ad offends Muslim woman who says it's insensitive to people who don't eat pork

It's reminiscent of the shit they pulled over in Britain in regards to Piglet, a famous statue(Derby's historic Florentine Boar statue were abandoned for fear of offending Muslims) and historical revision to avoid offending the fucks and sending them into riots

link
Time for them to assimilate, rather than dictate....or just get the fuck out.

   

I think we have to somehow, some way teach you to separate what you want to believe you hear, from what people actually say.

I say over and over again something not that far away from what you're now so impressed by when you hear the lady liberal say it.

OK, so here's my position. Are you listening this time? Promise?

Islam is dualistic. There's a religion, and a political, or life management aspect. You're going to close your ears now, and say all religions are like that. They're not the same. Do try to keep listening.

Mohammed had a period as religious figure in Mecca and a later period as a torturing, thieving, murdering, back-stabbing, lying, sex-slaver, pedophile pirate in Medina.

In Islam there can be a thing called abrogation that says if there's a conflict between something in one part of the Koran, and the other you take the literal word of the teaching from the later period. That later period would be Medina.

See the problem? You can call it fundamentalism, orthodoxy, literalism or just plain nuts, but what it really is, is abrogation. The beheaders of ISIS are following the literal word of the abrogated texts of Islam. In their minds they're being good Muslims by emulating the Mohammed of Medina. Call it fundamentalism if you prefer.

How many follow some, or all of abrogated Islam? How many will go more abrogator as more pressure is applied from an increasing population of true believers? Who knows?

If you're looking for a relativism though you might say it's a little like scientology where as you are pressured to get in deeper you become more obligated to believe the nuttier shit.

But for arguments sake, yes there are "fundamentalists", and no not every Muslim is one.

Is that finally clear yet?

   

What I read is that Islam is different than all religions, according to you. Not in a good way, I assume. Apparently this later Islam is the 'real' Islam. Do you see why people close their ears to you? If you start off with that viewpoint, there is absolutely no hope of peace with any Muslim, since they are all bound to follow the abrogated version as soon as they realize the conflict with the earlier version. So you have made Islam, and all Muslims the enemy, current or potential, unless they renounce Islam.

You'll never make peace with Muslims starting from that viewpoint. And there's over a billion of them, and as we've seen, pretty resistant to renouncing their religion. So your position calls for perpetual war until one or the other side is wiped out. Good luck on your quest, it won't succeed. Basically you're just the flip side of ISIS - convert or die, you just don't have the charisma to attract enough followers. You need to do more than just demonize your enemy, you need to offer something for your followers to actually strive for, what will happen when you do kill all the bad guys. You're weak on that part. Something about a Randian paradise, how glorious that will be. 70 Sarah Palins for every man. They won't be virgins of course, but you can't have everything. Of course that puts you in conflict with all the non-believer non-Muslims, so you'll have to start wiping them out too. Another way you'll be just like the Muslim fanatics - they kill more Muslims than Kafir too.


The bottom line is that all religions can be and are used by people to motivate followers to achieve political, not religious ends. Maybe the Koran lends itself more directly to such, but Christians have been and continue to be no slouches in claiming that God told them to kill other people for their own ends. The Jews of Israel are busy doing it on their much smaller scale. (Funny how the most intelligent people on earth never achieved domination anywhere until now) The Hindus manage to twist their religion to do it, now the Buddhists in Burma are doing it too. Yet millions of adherents of all those religions also manage to maintain their belief in their religion and also just get along and play nice with others. That's where the hope lies.

   

Well I don't know about "people"...

When did we start imagining these "people"? We were talking about you.

Now best guess as to why you can't follow a basic explanation is you're slow or psychotic.

Islamic fundamentalism or orthodoxy as to what needs to be accepted and followed as literal truth when the follower reaches that range of belief spins out of the principle of abrogation. I didn't invent that. It's well known. I've provided links in the past. I'd do it again, but what's the use. For whatever reasons you don't seem to be able, or let's be kind and say willing to understand a basic fact.

   

Wow, I wrote all that, and that's all you can respond with? I believe you about this abrogation, I guess (you have been known to bullshit or exaggerate in the past). We see what bullshit fundamentalist Christianity comes up with, even if the Christian principle of abrogation, as I understand it, would argue against just that bullshit. But if you think all Muslims are bound to follow this abrogation sooner or later, it leads to what I described above. Basically you're arguing for holy war yourself. No thanks.

   

Not going to happen, and most surely won't happen while we are bending all over for them.

   

How Muslim abrogation creates an ideology different than other fundamentalist ideologies and can eventually overpower the less committed to literal interpretation was explained to you already.

Believe it, prove it incorrect, or do what you usually do and pretend you didn't hear it. Either way, it's not a biggie to me. Just don't claim you know the way I think, when you obviously don't.