Don't blame bands for reserve housing woes
Lemmy @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:52 am
Macguyver Macguyver:
Keep in mind the constitution and any applicable Treaties.
Those two issues are the root of the problem. They are outdated, archaic and harmful to both native and non-native Canadians. The purpose of law is to benefit and protect the citizenry. When law becomes a problem rather than a benefit, it's time to redress the law. But the political will must come first. All we know for sure is that what we're doing isn't working and hasn't really ever worked. Time to try something different.
andyt @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:09 pm
I think we'll be waiting a long time for that political will. Until the majority of the population is affected by all this, it just won't happen.
Tricks @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:50 pm
Macguyver Macguyver:
BTW 12million pays for 300 employees @ 30K each per year. How much does a teacher make? $50K? A principal? 80K? A bus driver?
300 * 30000 = 9 million, not 12
DrCaleb @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:56 pm
Tricks Tricks:
Macguyver Macguyver:
BTW 12million pays for 300 employees @ 30K each per year. How much does a teacher make? $50K? A principal? 80K? A bus driver?
300 * 30000 = 9 million, not 12
It is in Reserve Accounting 101.
andyt @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:04 pm
http://netnewsledger.com/2011/12/01/att ... g-to-help/
$1:
Since the start of construction, over $325 million in contracts have been awarded to solely owned or joint venture companies run by the community.
Just this year alone, contracts awarded to the community total $51 million. Earlier in this note I referred to the training facility we are operating in the community.
In fact, this was the second training facility that we constructed and donated to the community at a combined cost of almost $2 million. The community runs the other facility. Every year for more than five years, we have been purchasing and delivering new books to every child in the community from kindergarten to Grade 12 as part of a program to grow literacy and education levels in the community.
We also have in place a scholarship program. In support of the efforts for a new school, we donated project trailers, helped the community review a design proposal and offered our project management expertise.
Just this year alone, contracts awarded to the community total $51 million. Earlier in this note I referred to the training facility we are operating in the community.
In fact, this was the second training facility that we constructed and donated to the community at a combined cost of almost $2 million. The community runs the other facility. Every year for more than five years, we have been purchasing and delivering new books to every child in the community from kindergarten to Grade 12 as part of a program to grow literacy and education levels in the community.
We also have in place a scholarship program. In support of the efforts for a new school, we donated project trailers, helped the community review a design proposal and offered our project management expertise.
Gunnair @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:43 pm
Took a peek at their 2011 finances.
Admin - 3.2 million
Wages and benefits - 11.2 million
That's not vague at all.
Tricks @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:48 pm
Also, why do people keep quoting the 3000 people figure? Only 2000 live on the reserve, which is the issue. Why are we including 1000 people who have nothing to do with it. Or do they have something to do with the reserve, and just not contribute in any way?
OnTheIce @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:51 pm
Gunnair Gunnair:
Took a peek at their 2011 finances.
Admin - 3.2 million
Wages and benefits - 11.2 million
That's not vague at all.
Admin - 3.2 million
Wages and benefits - 11.2 million
That's not vague at all.
And 12 million for "program delivery"
HyperionTheEvil @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:40 pm
Macguyver Macguyver:
$1:
The federal government's response to the grim First Nations housing situation at Attawapiskat is troubling.
It appears a knee-jerk racist response and the spread of misinformation has become its mantra.
Attawapiskat has become a miner's canary for Canadian First Nations. We can expect the heavy hand of this government to form the basis of future policy making.
Ottawa's reaction - and that of Prime Minister Stephen Harper in particular - has been appalling.
Rather than face the issue and try to find some kind of resolution, the prime minister complained that about $90 million has been spent by his government in the past six years and he sees little to show for it. Then the colonial office walks in and places the First Nations government under thirdparty management, which is a form of receivership.
It's easy to play blame-the-victim if people don't examine the facts. The $90 million spent over last six years constitutes the band's federal transfer payments. These cover costs for education and community and social development, and are accounted for in the band audits posted on its website since 2005.
It amounts to an average $15 million a year. This is comparable to other reserve communities of a similar size. The funds are closely regulated and can only be spent in certain ways.
The latest audited statement available on the Indian Affairs website is for the 2010-11 fiscal year. That year, the federal expenditures were $15,946,810 and included $403,986 available from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. for housing.
According to Statistics Canada, in 2001, the First Nation had a population of 1,290. The annual expenditures for the band were $15,861,724, and $159,748 was available for housing
Read more: http://www.timescolonist.com/life/blame ... z1flDrdzyE
It appears a knee-jerk racist response and the spread of misinformation has become its mantra.
Attawapiskat has become a miner's canary for Canadian First Nations. We can expect the heavy hand of this government to form the basis of future policy making.
Ottawa's reaction - and that of Prime Minister Stephen Harper in particular - has been appalling.
Rather than face the issue and try to find some kind of resolution, the prime minister complained that about $90 million has been spent by his government in the past six years and he sees little to show for it. Then the colonial office walks in and places the First Nations government under thirdparty management, which is a form of receivership.
It's easy to play blame-the-victim if people don't examine the facts. The $90 million spent over last six years constitutes the band's federal transfer payments. These cover costs for education and community and social development, and are accounted for in the band audits posted on its website since 2005.
It amounts to an average $15 million a year. This is comparable to other reserve communities of a similar size. The funds are closely regulated and can only be spent in certain ways.
The latest audited statement available on the Indian Affairs website is for the 2010-11 fiscal year. That year, the federal expenditures were $15,946,810 and included $403,986 available from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. for housing.
According to Statistics Canada, in 2001, the First Nation had a population of 1,290. The annual expenditures for the band were $15,861,724, and $159,748 was available for housing
Read more: http://www.timescolonist.com/life/blame ... z1flDrdzyE
Even if you don't agree Cuthand makes some good points.
I think he goes a little far. This is a "share the blame" situation and it is typical of many FN's. If we as Canadians cared more about our Native people then it would have been a priority for years to improve housing, education and the employment situation - not just give them token amounts to keep them quite.
But after 200 years of "white man knows best" I can't blame them for rejecting more bullshit from the feds. I'm sort of happy they gave the 3rd party the boot. things need to change. Maybe this is the start of a new process to change thing for the better for them, and us.
Really i can, there comes a time when even the purblind native stuck out in the middle of nowhere realizes "hey you know what, im probably not going to get a job with Boeing (Etc) any time soon out here"
For one of the few times in my life i have a meeting of the minds with some conservatives here. Natives dont need anymore handouts they need some tough-love and a kick in the ass to get out of the mindset that sitting around doing nothing , hundreds of miles out inthe bush is a productive lifstyle.
jeff744 @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:51 pm
Macguyver Macguyver:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
I want them to explain how a population of 3000 people manages to spend 12 million a year on "salaries" and another 11 million on "administration".
This band & Chief are corrupt.
Take for example the water treatment facility.
Contractors went up to the reserve and built a water treatment facility. They trained a man on the reserve on how to maintain the facility, gave him the appropriate tools and knowledge. They recommended that they get a truck, to haul tools and equipment to and from the facility. The band agreed and purchased a pickup truck for that very purpose.
The next time these contractors went up to the reserve, the repair man they trained comes riding down the road on a bicycle with a basket on the pack carrying his tools. No truck.
Asked where the truck went, he replies: "the chief took it".
Where do you get that information?
BTW 12million pays for 300 employees @ 30K each per year. How much does a teacher make? $50K? A principal? 80K? A bus driver?
Administration? how about operating an administration office, school, health center, fire station, school buses, garbage removal, sewer systems, police, day care, road maintenance ... for $11 million?
According to their Financial statements your numbers are incorrect.
But they do have $44 million worth of buildings - IDK what is what but how much do you spend on maintaining a building in a year? 5%? that seems minimal but that is $2.2 million a year - over 5 years that is 11 million.
And you're story, please source your information...I'd sure like to see where your facts come from.
My though is you have no real clue whats going on and you're just spreading mis-information.
Bands don't have to pay for education, health, buses, or police. Actual employees of a town of that size should sit around 100. Unless they have personal paved roads (rare as hell) they just need a grader and gravel. Administration should sit around at most 20 people, a sewer system is included in the 100 employees I stated above and they will often get them built by the government for free and just have to pay a few maintenance fees. Day care on that reserve? If they are living in that much poverty they are obviously at home all day and have no need for it, I worked minimum wage while paying rent and bills, within 6 months I had a $3000 computer, all from savings, and I spent a fair bit of money while saving for it.
Macguyver @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:25 pm
Tricks Tricks:
Macguyver Macguyver:
BTW 12million pays for 300 employees @ 30K each per year. How much does a teacher make? $50K? A principal? 80K? A bus driver?
300 * 30000 = 9 million, not 12
If you don't pay benefits, CPP or EI. Our overhead is just under 30% of the wage.
Semantics, actually its a typo lol. Good catch. I did 12m / 30,000 typed the wrong number.
Macguyver @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:28 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Gunnair Gunnair:
Took a peek at their 2011 finances.
Admin - 3.2 million
Wages and benefits - 11.2 million
That's not vague at all.
Admin - 3.2 million
Wages and benefits - 11.2 million
That's not vague at all.
And 12 million for "program delivery"
If you read a little more the programs are broken down too, maybe its another PDF IDK but I did see them.
Macguyver @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:44 pm
jeff744 jeff744:
Bands don't have to pay for education, health, buses, or police. Actual employees of a town of that size should sit around 100. Unless they have personal paved roads (rare as hell) they just need a grader and gravel. Administration should sit around at most 20 people, a sewer system is included in the 100 employees I stated above and they will often get them built by the government for free and just have to pay a few maintenance fees. Day care on that reserve? If they are living in that much poverty they are obviously at home all day and have no need for it, I worked minimum wage while paying rent and bills, within 6 months I had a $3000 computer, all from savings, and I spent a fair bit of money while saving for it.
I guarantee 100% that if they have a school they pay for it, they have daycares, they have police...that money is included in the transfer payments they get from the governments and the NGO's.
Sorry man, read the statements. Its all there. And the money the government gives them, it goes to pay for those services.
Minimum wage for 6 months=
40 hours x 26 weeks x $10 (at best) = $10,400
Minus payroll tax 15% = $8,840.00
Computer $3000 = $5,840.00
Rent @500/mo (idk where but thats cheap) $3000 = $2,840.00
Bills power @ $50/ Gas @ $50 / Phone @ $50 Water& Sewer & misc @ $50/ 200x 6 months $1200 = $1,640.00
Groceries @ $50/week = $1,300 = $340.00
Bus pass (since obviously for $340 over 6 months you're walking or bussing)$40/mo = $240.00 = $120.00
Internet = Free from neighbours = $120
Clothes, shoes, toiletries, books, backpack, weed, smokes, beer, hookers, poker nights, all for $20 a month.
Sounds to me like either the minimum wage in your area is HUGE or you've got me confused with someone who doesn't know the cost of living.
Did you walk through 5 feet of snow uphill both ways to get to work too? lol, I call BULLSHIT.
dino_bobba_renno @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:53 pm
Macguyver Macguyver:
I guarantee 100% that if they have a school they pay for it
They don't have a school, they tore it down because it was built on a diesel spill of some sort.
jeff744 @ Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:08 pm
Macguyver Macguyver:
jeff744 jeff744:
Bands don't have to pay for education, health, buses, or police. Actual employees of a town of that size should sit around 100. Unless they have personal paved roads (rare as hell) they just need a grader and gravel. Administration should sit around at most 20 people, a sewer system is included in the 100 employees I stated above and they will often get them built by the government for free and just have to pay a few maintenance fees. Day care on that reserve? If they are living in that much poverty they are obviously at home all day and have no need for it, I worked minimum wage while paying rent and bills, within 6 months I had a $3000 computer, all from savings, and I spent a fair bit of money while saving for it.
I guarantee 100% that if they have a school they pay for it, they have daycares, they have police...that money is included in the transfer payments they get from the governments and the NGO's.
Sorry man, read the statements. Its all there. And the money the government gives them, it goes to pay for those services.
Minimum wage for 6 months=
40 hours x 26 weeks x $10 (at best) = $10,400
Minus payroll tax 15% = $8,840.00
Computer $3000 = $5,840.00
Rent @500/mo (idk where but thats cheap) $3000 = $2,840.00
Bills power @ $50/ Gas @ $50 / Phone @ $50 Water& Sewer & misc @ $50/ 200x 6 months $1200 = $1,640.00
Groceries @ $50/week = $1,300 = $340.00
Bus pass (since obviously for $340 over 6 months you're walking or bussing)$40/mo = $240.00 = $120.00
Internet = Free from neighbours = $120
Clothes, shoes, toiletries, books, backpack, weed, smokes, beer, hookers, poker nights, all for $20 a month.
Sounds to me like either the minimum wage in your area is HUGE or you've got me confused with someone who doesn't know the cost of living.
Did you walk through 5 feet of snow uphill both ways to get to work too? lol, I call BULLSHIT.
$350 for rent due to roommates while also including water, wages were $8.50, total bills came out to $150 pre-split, didn't need a bus as I could walk to work in the event my car did not work, gas came out to about $50 every month and a half and in that time I would also drive 100km to my hometown and then another 100 back time to time.
Saving money is incredibly easy if you budget yourself, even easier if you have a partner with a second income.