Theresa Spence / Native land issues - merged
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Thanos @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:03 pm
Tell her there's no more money because all the spare change has been allocated to the Omar Khadr Happiness Fund.
jeff744 @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:05 pm
Brenda Brenda:
Funny, I pay for my own house and maintenance, not to mention renovation... I don't make $70k either.
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
You can drive a few hours and get to supplies year round. Attawapiskat is only able to receive heavy supplies for maintenance part of the year, on an ice road that they are expected to maintain. It is easy for a person that lives near a city to go to the local lumber yard and buy a 2x4, in Attawapiskat they have to order them, have them flown in or shipped by truck and then pray that they have enough. Meanwhile you also have to pay for fire heated houses when firewood costs up to $200/cord and food is also horrendously expensive.
Most of the people in Attawapiskat make nowhere near 70K, that was just the chief who would be considered upper class on the reserve. The vast majority of incomes are from trapping, the diamond mine, or public services that the band is expected to fund. Hell, they have a skyrocketing unemployment because it is next to impossible to get a decent educations when your library is only open to students and your elementary and high school are sharing a building because the government refuses to replace one that would have been condemned and rebuilt in a fraction the time had it not been on a reserve.
dino_bobba_renno @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:09 pm
jeff744 jeff744:
You can drive a few hours and get to supplies year round. Attawapiskat is only able to receive heavy supplies for maintenance part of the year, on an ice road that they are expected to maintain. It is easy for a person that lives near a city to go to the local lumber yard and buy a 2x4, in Attawapiskat they have to order them, have them flown in or shipped by truck and then pray that they have enough. Meanwhile you also have to pay for fire heated houses when firewood costs up to $200/cord and food is also horrendously expensive.
$1:
This week, a teleconference meeting between band officials and federal bureaucrats was convened to discuss a range of housing issues. During that meeting, Spence was asked if she had prepared a housing plan for her community, something the government has been pushing the community to do for several months.
But when pressed about a housing plan, Spence simply hung up the phone.
The incident has raised new concerns in Ottawa about Spence's leadership.
But when pressed about a housing plan, Spence simply hung up the phone.
The incident has raised new concerns in Ottawa about Spence's leadership.
Do they need to ship pens, paper and people to write reports up there too?
Regina @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:15 pm
jeff744 jeff744:
Brenda Brenda:
Funny, I pay for my own house and maintenance, not to mention renovation... I don't make $70k either.
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
You can drive a few hours and get to supplies year round. Attawapiskat is only able to receive heavy supplies for maintenance part of the year, on an ice road that they are expected to maintain. It is easy for a person that lives near a city to go to the local lumber yard and buy a 2x4, in Attawapiskat they have to order them, have them flown in or shipped by truck and then pray that they have enough. Meanwhile you also have to pay for fire heated houses when firewood costs up to $200/cord and food is also horrendously expensive.
Most of the people in Attawapiskat make nowhere near 70K, that was just the chief who would be considered upper class on the reserve. The vast majority of incomes are from trapping, the diamond mine, or public services that the band is expected to fund. Hell, they have a skyrocketing unemployment because it is next to impossible to get a decent educations when your library is only open to students and your elementary and high school are sharing a building because the government refuses to replace one that would have been condemned and rebuilt in a fraction the time had it not been on a reserve.
No one is telling them they have to stay there. I would have to move too if there was no work and shelter for me.
My brother was a foreman at the Diamond mine and he didn't get in and out of there by ice road.
jeff744 @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:22 pm
dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
jeff744 jeff744:
Brenda Brenda:
Funny, I pay for my own house and maintenance, not to mention renovation... I don't make $70k either.
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
You can drive a few hours and get to supplies year round. Attawapiskat is only able to receive heavy supplies for maintenance part of the year, on an ice road that they are expected to maintain. It is easy for a person that lives near a city to go to the local lumber yard and buy a 2x4, in Attawapiskat they have to order them, have them flown in or shipped by truck and then pray that they have enough. Meanwhile you also have to pay for fire heated houses when firewood costs up to $200/cord and food is also horrendously expensive.
Most of the people in Attawapiskat make nowhere near 70K, that was just the chief who would be considered upper class on the reserve. The vast majority of incomes are from trapping, the diamond mine, or public services that the band is expected to fund. Hell, they have a skyrocketing unemployment because it is next to impossible to get a decent educations when your library is only open to students and your elementary and high school are sharing a building because the government refuses to replace one that would have been condemned and rebuilt in a fraction the time had it not been on a reserve.
$1:
This week, a teleconference meeting between band officials and federal bureaucrats was convened to discuss a range of housing issues. During that meeting, Spence was asked if she had prepared a housing plan for her community, something the government has been pushing the community to do for several months.
But when pressed about a housing plan, Spence simply hung up the phone.
The incident has raised new concerns in Ottawa about Spence's leadership.
But when pressed about a housing plan, Spence simply hung up the phone.
The incident has raised new concerns in Ottawa about Spence's leadership.
Do they need to ship pens, paper and people to write reports up there too?
It would help to actually look at the situation and try to help form a resolution instead of demand that they come up with everything using their incomplete educations or risk just having the government take all the power and make the decisions for them. She has been hounded for months by reporters and you actually blame her for hanging up? I now expect you to listen to every telemarketer you get and kindly explain that you are not interested, if you get angry then congratulations, you now know how Spence is likely feeling.
Let's see you (I assume you know about the same as Spence does regarding making a housing plan) make one when you are unsure when your housing units would arrive, unsure how much money the government will give you, and trying to figure out how much of your budget will be going to housing.
Gunnair @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:23 pm
jeff744 jeff744:
Brenda Brenda:
Funny, I pay for my own house and maintenance, not to mention renovation... I don't make $70k either.
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
You can drive a few hours and get to supplies year round. Attawapiskat is only able to receive heavy supplies for maintenance part of the year, on an ice road that they are expected to maintain. It is easy for a person that lives near a city to go to the local lumber yard and buy a 2x4, in Attawapiskat they have to order them, have them flown in or shipped by truck and then pray that they have enough. Meanwhile you also have to pay for fire heated houses when firewood costs up to $200/cord and food is also horrendously expensive.
Most of the people in Attawapiskat make nowhere near 70K, that was just the chief who would be considered upper class on the reserve. The vast majority of incomes are from trapping, the diamond mine, or public services that the band is expected to fund. Hell, they have a skyrocketing unemployment because it is next to impossible to get a decent educations when your library is only open to students and your elementary and high school are sharing a building because the government refuses to replace one that would have been condemned and rebuilt in a fraction the time had it not been on a reserve.
Hmmmmmmm........would you also be opposed to EI changes that would push people from moving away from areas of high unemployment and few job prospects to areas with labour shortfalls so that foreign workers would not have to be brought in and more money would stay in the country?
jeff744 @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:25 pm
Regina Regina:
jeff744 jeff744:
Brenda Brenda:
Funny, I pay for my own house and maintenance, not to mention renovation... I don't make $70k either.
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
You can drive a few hours and get to supplies year round. Attawapiskat is only able to receive heavy supplies for maintenance part of the year, on an ice road that they are expected to maintain. It is easy for a person that lives near a city to go to the local lumber yard and buy a 2x4, in Attawapiskat they have to order them, have them flown in or shipped by truck and then pray that they have enough. Meanwhile you also have to pay for fire heated houses when firewood costs up to $200/cord and food is also horrendously expensive.
Most of the people in Attawapiskat make nowhere near 70K, that was just the chief who would be considered upper class on the reserve. The vast majority of incomes are from trapping, the diamond mine, or public services that the band is expected to fund. Hell, they have a skyrocketing unemployment because it is next to impossible to get a decent educations when your library is only open to students and your elementary and high school are sharing a building because the government refuses to replace one that would have been condemned and rebuilt in a fraction the time had it not been on a reserve.
No one is telling them they have to stay there. I would have to move too if there was no work and shelter for me.
My brother was a foreman at the Diamond mine and he didn't get in and out of there by ice road.
Your ancestors have lived on the land for generations and you live in an area that you are still trapping in. They aren't moving because there is still no decision on whether you retain your right to trap on your traditional lines after you move or if they are given up and passed over to someone that hasn't left the community.
Did your brother try to get a house to Attawapiskat? They use an ice road to move the heavier materials because they don't have a land route to other communities out of that season.
jeff744 @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:27 pm
Gunnair Gunnair:
jeff744 jeff744:
Brenda Brenda:
Funny, I pay for my own house and maintenance, not to mention renovation... I don't make $70k either.
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
I have a creek on my property that should not be there (been put there by the village tho), is on no map, and I am not allowed by the village to dump it full of whatever to keep my yard from overflowing every year. I have to pay for my own drainage system to keep my yard dry and my basement from flooding.
Where's my money?
You can drive a few hours and get to supplies year round. Attawapiskat is only able to receive heavy supplies for maintenance part of the year, on an ice road that they are expected to maintain. It is easy for a person that lives near a city to go to the local lumber yard and buy a 2x4, in Attawapiskat they have to order them, have them flown in or shipped by truck and then pray that they have enough. Meanwhile you also have to pay for fire heated houses when firewood costs up to $200/cord and food is also horrendously expensive.
Most of the people in Attawapiskat make nowhere near 70K, that was just the chief who would be considered upper class on the reserve. The vast majority of incomes are from trapping, the diamond mine, or public services that the band is expected to fund. Hell, they have a skyrocketing unemployment because it is next to impossible to get a decent educations when your library is only open to students and your elementary and high school are sharing a building because the government refuses to replace one that would have been condemned and rebuilt in a fraction the time had it not been on a reserve.
Hmmmmmmm........would you also be opposed to EI changes that would push people from moving away from areas of high unemployment and few job prospects to areas with labour shortfalls so that foreign workers would not have to be brought in and more money would stay in the country?
Why not give them a better education so they can actually fill jobs that are already available in the area but they don't have access to the education needed to fill them?
dino_bobba_renno @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:30 pm
I do take that into consideration Jeff but come on, there has to be some accountability. I could see if the Feds were looking for a 200 page 20 year plan but I think they would be satisfied with just about anything that's beyond just sending money up there with no clue as to how it will be spent or on what.
To date Spence hasn't seemed overly co-operative with any requests for accountability what so ever, from what we know at least. There's got to be a little give and take. Asking "what do you plan on using the money for" isn't overly unrealistic.
jeff744 @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:48 pm
dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
I do take that into consideration Jeff but come on, there has to be some accountability. I could see if the Feds were looking for a 200 page 20 year plan but I think they would be satisfied with just about anything that's beyond just sending money up there with no clue as to how it will be spent or on what.
To date Spence hasn't seemed overly co-operative with any requests for accountability what so ever, from what we know at least. There's got to be a little give and take. Asking "what do you plan on using the money for" isn't overly unrealistic.
To date Spence hasn't seemed overly co-operative with any requests for accountability what so ever, from what we know at least. There's got to be a little give and take. Asking "what do you plan on using the money for" isn't overly unrealistic.
Making any plan is next to impossible though when you consider just how shitty their luck has been in the last couple decades, a plan at this point would basically be to ask for the 84 million to build the houses and sufficient money to keep them maintained. It would take decades to even come close to meeting the needs, hard to make a plan for that.
Benn @ Thu May 24, 2012 9:58 pm
After reading and analyzing this story for a grand total of 1 seconds, 0.5 of which was reading the title, I say he or she can go shove it up his or her Attawapiskat.
Gunnair @ Thu May 24, 2012 10:00 pm
jeff744 jeff744:
Gunnair Gunnair:
jeff744 jeff744:
You can drive a few hours and get to supplies year round. Attawapiskat is only able to receive heavy supplies for maintenance part of the year, on an ice road that they are expected to maintain. It is easy for a person that lives near a city to go to the local lumber yard and buy a 2x4, in Attawapiskat they have to order them, have them flown in or shipped by truck and then pray that they have enough. Meanwhile you also have to pay for fire heated houses when firewood costs up to $200/cord and food is also horrendously expensive.
Most of the people in Attawapiskat make nowhere near 70K, that was just the chief who would be considered upper class on the reserve. The vast majority of incomes are from trapping, the diamond mine, or public services that the band is expected to fund. Hell, they have a skyrocketing unemployment because it is next to impossible to get a decent educations when your library is only open to students and your elementary and high school are sharing a building because the government refuses to replace one that would have been condemned and rebuilt in a fraction the time had it not been on a reserve.
Hmmmmmmm........would you also be opposed to EI changes that would push people from moving away from areas of high unemployment and few job prospects to areas with labour shortfalls so that foreign workers would not have to be brought in and more money would stay in the country?
Why not give them a better education so they can actually fill jobs that are already available in the area but they don't have access to the education needed to fill them?
What jobs are in the area that need filling?
And I believe you avoided the question as well.
Gunnair @ Thu May 24, 2012 10:05 pm
jeff744 jeff744:
dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
I do take that into consideration Jeff but come on, there has to be some accountability. I could see if the Feds were looking for a 200 page 20 year plan but I think they would be satisfied with just about anything that's beyond just sending money up there with no clue as to how it will be spent or on what.
To date Spence hasn't seemed overly co-operative with any requests for accountability what so ever, from what we know at least. There's got to be a little give and take. Asking "what do you plan on using the money for" isn't overly unrealistic.
To date Spence hasn't seemed overly co-operative with any requests for accountability what so ever, from what we know at least. There's got to be a little give and take. Asking "what do you plan on using the money for" isn't overly unrealistic.
Making any plan is next to impossible though when you consider just how shitty their luck has been in the last couple decades, a plan at this point would basically be to ask for the 84 million to build the houses and sufficient money to keep them maintained. It would take decades to even come close to meeting the needs, hard to make a plan for that.
Honestly, I get that you support the cause, but suggesting that it is next to impossible for these people to plan because of their bad luck, but start funneling new cash into the reserve anyway with no accountability required is the absolute height of absurdity. Irrespective of the lack of complexity, these people have a government and it is being both irresponsible and unaccountable - two things in a government screaming for corruption and there has been plenty of suggestion of that as well as bad governance by the Feds.
Nope, I'm all for helping, but like a panhandler, I don't give out cash. I'll buy them a meal instead.
jeff744 @ Thu May 24, 2012 10:12 pm
Gunnair Gunnair:
What jobs are in the area that need filling?
And I believe you avoided the question as well.
And I believe you avoided the question as well.
The article I read listed a community liason as one and then proceeded to state that there are a large number of jobs reserved specifically for Attawapiskat members that have not been filled because they cannot get the certification required to fill the jobs (the only way to get a special course is to have enough people with the qualifications and cash request it). And people are already leaving the reserve, before they start leaving on a large scale though they would need some kind of assurance that they can retain their trapping lines even though they have left the region and have some transportation to get them into the region.
jeff744 @ Thu May 24, 2012 10:16 pm
Gunnair Gunnair:
jeff744 jeff744:
dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:
I do take that into consideration Jeff but come on, there has to be some accountability. I could see if the Feds were looking for a 200 page 20 year plan but I think they would be satisfied with just about anything that's beyond just sending money up there with no clue as to how it will be spent or on what.
To date Spence hasn't seemed overly co-operative with any requests for accountability what so ever, from what we know at least. There's got to be a little give and take. Asking "what do you plan on using the money for" isn't overly unrealistic.
To date Spence hasn't seemed overly co-operative with any requests for accountability what so ever, from what we know at least. There's got to be a little give and take. Asking "what do you plan on using the money for" isn't overly unrealistic.
Making any plan is next to impossible though when you consider just how shitty their luck has been in the last couple decades, a plan at this point would basically be to ask for the 84 million to build the houses and sufficient money to keep them maintained. It would take decades to even come close to meeting the needs, hard to make a plan for that.
Honestly, I get that you support the cause, but suggesting that it is next to impossible for these people to plan because of their bad luck, but start funneling new cash into the reserve anyway with no accountability required is the absolute height of absurdity. Irrespective of the lack of complexity, these people have a government and it is being both irresponsible and unaccountable - two things in a government screaming for corruption and there has been plenty of suggestion of that as well as bad governance by the Feds.
Nope, I'm all for helping, but like a panhandler, I don't give out cash. I'll buy them a meal instead.
What is your opinion on a federal government that knew about and chose to ignore the conditions on the reserve for years? That sounds like a government that is acting irresponsibly and trying to hide information and blame it on others so that it is also unaccountable. It is hard to get rid of all the corruption in a system but I think a system that only chose to act after a state of emergency was declared a third time and finally picked up by the media is far more corrupt than one that is not even given close to the funding required to meet their needs.
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