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Well, when I said Quebec could react if Canada decided to be vengeful pricks in case of separation (but that won't happen, Canada has honor and its leaders would realize they'd have nothing to gain from it, and that even if the Canadian public went wild), I didn't necessarilly restrict the possibilities to the St-Lawrence river, but since things seem to be settled at it...

Technically speaking, Quebec indeed couldn't do much of anything without violating Canada's ownership of the river. If the situation required it, we'd have to play dirty. For example, sending ships headed towards Canada back to their origin, even if it's against Canadian and international law.

Of course, I don't think such a possibility is likely, if the Canadian government decided to act like idiots, which is unlikely to begin with, then Quebec's government would almost certainly try to reason them. Unlike what people may think, separatists aren't necessarilly completely disconnected to reality.

But then, if that didn't work, then chances are they'd get to dirty tactics. They'd certainly not just give up and let things slide.

   

Well, at this moment...Canada does, but not the US. If Quebec is its own country, then Quebec has the right to tell Canada or the US not to use that river.

   

How exactly do you think that would happen?

   

   

Oh, I doubt it'd happen. I was more of throwing that in the air. But then, it's not impossible either, the government would just need to force the port authority to refuse ships - basically, by "taking over" as the new port ownership.

Unlikely, and dislikeable, but not impossible.

   

How? With what? I said this before, Quebec does not have sole access to the St Lawrence river. How about Nova Scotia along with New Brunswick and PEI? NFLD?

Most seperatist Quebecers don't realize the consequences of seperation. They simply *assume* they will automatically get control of everything around them. Nice dream, arrogant with a touch of dementia but unrealistic and pathetic.

   

Canada has warships, Quebec doesn't. Not likely.

You keep saying "if the Canadian government acts like idiots". How about if the "Quebec government acts like idiots"? Why is it soley the Canadian government? The Canadian government isn't perfect by far but its record is by far better than Quebecs leadership.

I beg to differ. I said above. Most separatists seem to believe that if they separate, they will gain everything around them and everything will be normal....sorry, not likely. That in my opinion is a touch over the edge of reality and into dementia with a touch of syphilis.

You mean like the FLQ? Cowardly, dirty tactics with no direction and murder? I'd like to think the Quebec people are in the 21st century and not back to nationalistic fervor of doing something stupid. 70's terrorism is nothing compared to now and there is zero tolerance about such things now.

Wait...you didn't mean those dirty tactics? You meant expunging innocent Canadians of their hard earned dollars just to keep Quebec happy? Ahhh, damn, then you won. Those dirty tactics win all the time.

   

True. Quebec can't really stand to Canada head-on. I don't think Canada would actually go as far as to declare war on Quebec (after a referendum I mean, if it's unilateral separation then maybe, but that won't happen), but dissuasion tactics using the army are very possible, yes.



If, after an eventual seccession, the government of Quebec decide to screw Canada, then Canada could in all fairness and legality try to stop its actions. However, unless the situation changes a lot, this is incredibly unlikely : no post-separation Quebec government would have any point in angering Canada since Canada has the upper hand in all likelihood. On the other hand, Canada possibly could afford a similar attitude, even though I believe it wouldn't be a good idea (Basically, I find that possibility much more possible).

I have to note one thing : I could have mentionned the possibility that Quebec be asses to Canada after an eventual separation as, even though I consider this more unlikely for a simple matter of ratio of force, it indeed is a possibility. Yet, I saw no way how pointing this out could bring much to my argumentation (and to the entire argument in fact) even though it's closely related to what I discussed. Still, as you can see, it's not a subject I fear by any means : now that you brought it up, I have no qualms answering.



Most? Well, I think that's rather your personnal opinion than statistics (statistics which probably don't exist anyway, eh).

Regardless, there's a certain logic to keep in mind here : should Quebec seccess, some of the "areas" (I believe that's what you meant by "everything"?) it contains would pretty much become its property ; for example, the Saint-Lawrence river between Montreal and Quebec City couldn't realistically be claimed by anyone else. Saying this isn't true is ignoring the obvious, I'm afraid. However, many "areas", especially bodies of water bordering the ex-province, could go to either Canada or Quebec (or in some few extraordinary cases, perhaps the USA). Notably, eastern Hudson Bay, Baffin Strait, the largest part of the Gulf of the Saint-Lawrence, possibly the strait of Belle Isle (but I personally think this one should remain fully Canadian), etc. Chances are most if not all of these disputable areas would simply be split, but all of that would have to be discussed. I'm positive that, through discussion, a sincerely fair agreement can be reached.



Okay, that'd be really over-the-edge dirty. That'd be like, begging for the entire world to hate us. I didn't mean dirty as in "terrorism", but rather as in "nuisance".

And Hell, I have to say I wonder why I mentionned the possibility of dirt tactics earlier without ever noting I'm deeply against it. Diplomacy's the way to go, as long as you're not at war (and there'd in all likelihood be no war over Quebec). At worst, rely to international mediation.



I don't know if you were trying to affect me in any way with that, but I find this to be little more than an outcry of rage. That's your right, but I'll disregard this.

   

I agree Tman.

Harper made it clear in his budget NS and NFL can go GFTS, he broke his promise akin to "Giving these provinces his "Word" on the Alantic Accord and then he does an about face and renegs. He's a lying scum bag, like the Liberal party we've been lied to and shafted again. If Quebec seperates will we suffer? Yes but the politicians don't care if we do, we aren't a large enough voting block to "Matter". It's all about the political party and votes, Canada as a country isn't an issue to those who are elected they don't give a rat's ass about this Country or it's people. Frankly I've had all I can take from the Liberals and Conservatives the word "Honour" is a mystery to these parties they are souless and liars. I've gained alot of respect for Quebec lately, they defend their culture and won't take the socialist crap the rest of Canada panders to. I would gladly give them "Destinct Society" status.

   

Amen.

   

Leave it up to me and the rest of my red blooded, red skinned brothers.

We'll declare war on Kebec and the Quebecuois. We are not interested in leaving Canada.

I have spoken out about the MWS in the past, but I'ld be on their list in a heart beat, if Kebec seperates...

North of the St. Lawrance, from Ontario to Labrador, would be Mohowk held terratory, with aid from Canada and the US(the US has no intentions of allowing the wingnuts that would lead Kebec, to gain control of the banks of the Seaway).

Then there's the Cree in the North. Rupert's Land would become Cree held terratory, they would then begin negotiations with Kebec and the Martitimes, for the price of power from their shiny new Cree owned James Bay Power genration Station.

Kebec would be no more then a 100 to 200 kms wide and have the economic and military powers of Tuvalu

(Sorry I picked your post to jump in on fire_i, it seemed like as good a place as any, lol)

   

and lets not forget to reclaim the land that was given to Quebec for joining confederation,
the natives well love that...

   

What makes anyone think that any Canadian Government is going to allow any Province to separate from the Federation?

IMO, that will never happen without an overwhelming NATIONAL referendum result in favour of breaking up Canada. It just won't happen. One Province cannot vote to break up Canada. This country belongs to more than the residents of just one Province. JMO.

   

Note that in the following post, when I refer to an independant Quebec, I always consider it obtained its eventual independance through a successful democratic referendum with a reasonable margin (55%+).

I doubt that would happen, for such a war would only lead to unecessary strife. I also don't think Canadians would truly back it (at least after a short while, once the dust settles)... and obviously Québécois wouldn't, but that wouldn't play much of a role. Chances are that kind of war would also be internationally sanctionned and, even though organizations like the UN are actually toothless, it's likely that many countries, mostly European ones in all likelihood, would clearly side against the aggressor. If Quebec declared the war, they'd side against Quebec, but if Canada declared it, then they'd side against Canada.



The territory to the North of Quebec is its own property. Unlike the widespread belief, amerindians do not own about 80% of Quebec. They have special rights on a large area, but they own only a small part of it (About 2%? I'm not positive here) - and even then, the definition of "own" is loose as, officially speaking, it's still Quebec's land, it's just that it's administered independantly.

In all actuality, what happens to the north of Quebec would be decided shortly after Quebec seccesses (if it ever happens). It'd remain a whole at first, but if some amerindian peoples wanted to go back to Canada and/or otherwise separate from the new country (which is their right), then there'd have to be discussions with Quebec to know with how much territory they'd leave with (I won't advance a number here, but it certainly will be closer to the figure of "2%" than to that of "80%").

The US wouldn't do anything. That's for certain. Not only do they have no actual interest in interfering, as unlike what you seem to believe an independant Quebec would not be a nutjob country but would be administered properly and democratically as it has always been (therefore the US don't have anything to fear, either socially, economically or millitarilly), but an assault would also be greeted with incomprehension and confusion by the Americans. The american people would certainly not agree to an attack on a neighboring democratic country, especially considering the reasons given for such an act would be very doubtful. The USA would not interfere.



That's speculation, yet you speak like it was a fact... regardless. All and all, that'd be little more than expropriation. Again, very unlikely, and doing this would require breaking international conventions (and probably written international laws as well, but that I can't confirm) or years of discussion which would lead to this (extremely unlikely) conclusion.



Easy to say, harder to do...



To an extent. If there's an idea to break up the whole of Canada into pieces, then yes, there'd need to be a national referendum for sure. But if a single province wants to leave, leaving its fate to the other provinces is little short of hypocrisy. It'd look fair a democratic, but would in fact be entirely be against the spirit (and possibly against the letter) of it. A single province can choose its own fate, as long as it doesn't *directly* dictate that of the others (and the emphasis here is of crucial importance, I really mean directly as in, directly ).

   

EDIT: Err, sorry for the double-post. The forum gave me some strange "debug mode" message so I thought it hadn't posted what I said - yet it did, and twice (even thrice, but I deleted the last one) at it. Bah!

   

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