Ontario separatism, Eastern alienation

Um, wouldn't Quebec be FIRST to leave (seeing as how they actually have referenda and almost half already wanted to go)? Leaving, of course, the Northwest Territories, Yukon, and Nunavit!

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Um, wouldn't Quebec be FIRST to leave (seeing as how they actually have referenda and almost half already wanted to go)? [/QUOTE] Why should Québec go first ? After all, we all know how fickle Canadian politics are and who knows what the future holds for the federation. Even though Québécers speak another language (other than English), we can also be polite ... "après vous... bienvenue"

Well , considering that Quebec has a referendum every decade for the past twenty years and the last one came within 1% of being successful, whereas no other province has even made separation an election issue. Could that be a clue?

Why leave it too the ninny named Dalton? no! we as citizens of this province must band together forge a new bold party and unilateraly declare our independence from the rest of Canada no reforendums simple platform of a vote for us is a vote to leave,,,we have 1/3 of the population of this country and until oil we were the wealthiest. Our prosperity is morgaged by our Federal goverment to keep the other 8 provinces happy ,even now oil rich newfoundland held their breath and Ottawa buckled and they keep their equalization payments,,time to get real. There are no bennifits attached to remaining a part of this confederation..

Now I am going to peeve everyone off. Do you have any idea how childish this discussion sounds? At some point in time every part of this country has gained special assistance from the federal government either through direct financial assistance or protective legislation. (Remember that the GST replaced the manufacturing tax so that manufactures could be more competitive in the U.S. market.) I have done a great deal of complaining in my time but I believe that everytime someone brings up these regional issues they are seeking to distract from the real issues in this country: the growing inequality and the growing corporatism from which the vast majority of Canadians, regardless where they live, will suffer. Government today is about making multinational corporations competitive at any cost. It is quite evident that the merging of government and corporate power is behind the developing economic decline in Ontario. Since Ontario is more dependent on industrialization the push to globalization is working to destroy its economy (just as the push to centralization in the 20th century hurt the economies of other provinces). Ontario separatism will do nothing to help change the fact that its own economic elite is taking its capital elsewhere in the search for bigger and better profits.

"The best part would be that Ontario could rightfully claim ownership to the name "Canada", given this country's history, and keep the Canadian dollar for ourselves too, since we happen to be the financial center of Canada." Make sure you keep the sellout BS "national media outlets" based in Toronto to yourselves as well. Good riddance!

Actually, that's not really true two posts up, but it is 'partly' true. I agree that this issue would not exist at all except that its DESIGNED to. For example, if Ontario weren't in a precarious position-partly due to its massive population growth, then people wouldn't be griping about equalization. Well, some would, but they'd be marginal ingrates. So again, if it comes to money look to money. Capital flight is a huge issue. YOu think those SO investment firms have their money in Canada? Not likely, its in India and China. Again, statscan did a survey five years ago and found 120 BILLION in hidden assets in tax havens like the Caymens. And that was a conservative estimate and five years ago. Unlike the US and Ireland, who sent letters to everybody saying that if you got hidden assets, they're coming looking for them and you'll do time for it-unless you come clean now, Canada is going in the opposite direction making it easier. So that's an AWFUL lot of money. To answer an above point, yes Nova Scotia has more universities per capita, but that's because it has hardly any 'capita'. Those universities also serve three other provinces as many of the programs are not available elsewhere. Meanwhile, the city of waterloo with a population just more than Saint John has two world class universities. And that's world class, not like "St. Thomas is a university". So in ontario we've seen Harper commit to those billions more in the auto sector, billions in research and development, and now it was just announced he will commmit the half a billion to upgrade BC ports and infrastructure. In the province of New Brunswick, while the PM visited, it was announced they'd get five million to complete a sports arena for Moncton and get some more equalization. So in SOME cases the feds invest in industry and its infrastructure, while in the maritimes it puts money into pogey and health care, and people gripe that those people are 'too dependant'. A history of canada shows that the above is false, that 'each region' is NOT built up by Ontario, but actually torn down. In contrast, the European Union gave special taxation powers to Ireland in the sixties to build up its economy, which it has. In Canada, as we see from the above, when Newfoundland finds some oil, people gripe that they still get equalization. The contrast is even worse though, because of course in the maritimes governments and the people who support them, know the reality-that IF they get off their butts and make some tough decisions it will only mean that they get less money from Ottawa. So why would they bother? Why sink money and resources into a potentially loser industry, if it may fail and cost you politically, and it just means you simply have an equal amount taken from your pocket from Ottawa. If you think Ontario has problems take a look at New Brunswick. In every city there is an office designed to process workers to send out west. A recent newspaper in a mid sized university town had ONE local job-selling chocolate bars, there were twelve others, all for jobs in Alberta, BC, and even the NWT. Far from Ontario's massive gains, New Brunswick is LOSING population, in particular young people. The ONLY increase in jobs comes from the government, and the government is barely balancing its books, thanks only to Ottawa. In NB the IRvings were paid to CLOSE its shipyard, meanwhile, next door, Maine's economy is run by Washingtons need for navy ships. Government contracts are also a subsidy. Without equalization the province of New Brunswick (and others) would simply be bankrupt, simple as that. And ALL that money goes to health and education. And those education dollars train workers for those out west. As for immigration, NB has zero. Forget money per immigrant, in NB you're lucky to see an immigrant. The numbers would actually come to MILLIONS per immigrant, because the feds invested in a program to bring an african family into a rural area-to train in FORESTRY!! In other words, to take New Brunswick jobs in an industry that is shedding workers, in communities shedding people (nice idea eh?) In ontario, Tim Hortons is advertising with benefits, in New Brunswick, tenants of boarding houses don't even have basic human rights. If you live in Ontario, just GO visit the cities of New Brunswick. There is more poverty in the cities of Fredericton than in most ontario ones, per capita, because its a small town. That's why Fredericton had to do something Harris wouldn't even dream of, and thats to make ALL panhandling completely illegal. They call in the police for ANY demonstration and people are immediately arrested. So while Ontario may be precarious, New Brunswick is DISASTROUS. Ontario at least has vast resources it can use to combat its problems, most of Canada does not. The reason immigrants went west was opportunity, by that thinking there should be nobody east of BC. And of course once you get to BC what's next? Well, opportunities are available in the southern US, so do we all move there? Of course not, that's ridiculous. I live in southern ontario and the motto is 'growth at all costs'. I live in a city which has grown by a quarter in a decade and still calls it 'smart growth' and is actively planning on how to double it in thirty years. That's complete madness in a country where places are getting emptied.