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So my dad tells me this story about his neighbour. Apparently this one evening this group of kids were on his property making noise and generally being punk teenagers. He tells them to get off his property and stop making so much noise, there are people sleeping after all. Well this group tells him to,"F*ck off!" So he says if they do not leave he will call the police. Of course they leave and he goes to bed. A little while later 6 police cruisers arrive at his house and arrest him for threatening this group of kids with a handgun. Apparently after he ran them off, these kids phoned the police and said he was waving around a handgun. Funny thing is that he does not actually own any handguns, just a hunting rifle or two that are locked up. Yet despite this obvious lack of evidence he still has to appear in court. This is what our society has come to, kids are no longer afraid of the consequences of their actions. Do you have faith in our justice system? Because I don't.

   

When it is proved in court that he has no hand gun, they will be arrested for obstruction of justice. But then again there probably minors so they will get 3 minuets community service.

   

No, he'll probably be prosecuted for the mere suspicion of having a handgun.

   

And I'll guarantee they confiscated all the legal guns he had in the home as well. Man this country is ass backwards some times.

   

The USA does some pretty weird stuff, too.

   

A few years ago I was living in Edmonton, and some punks stole a truck and rammed it into an electronics store to rob it. Well the little Asian guy who owned the store happened to be sleeping in the back due to previous breakins. Now the store owner had a gun on hand and he shot at the crooks and winged one of them. You'd think this little guy would be a hero, he stood up for his life and his property. The whole city was talking about it and many were very supportive of the owner. But guess what, after the wounded crook was patched up at the hospital the police cut a deal with him if he would testify against the store owner that shot him. That's right they let the crook go in order for them to prosecute a man who did nothing more than what the police obviously couldn't do for him. That made me sad.

   

Kids have always been like this, it's really nothing new. It's just that they emulate what they see other people in society do. They have seen other people frame individuals to get revenge. They know it's a good 'for the minute' plan because that's what happens on TV. What they don't think through is that they are creating an event that will grow bigger than they are willing to handle. It's not funny anymore when they have to goto court and be serious about what they just did. All it takes is one of them to break and spill his or her guts and the truth will come out and they'll all look like idiots.

Just be glad they didn't bring a handgun back with them.

To answer your question about my faith concerning the judicial system:

I do have have faith in any judicial system. I think it's impossible to have faith in any system that throws criminals into a place where they get to live in close quarters with other criminals. No, I do not have an feasible alternative.

Segment

   

I'm sorry, I feel real bad for your Dad, but I gotta say that was pretty clever. However, I feel guilty for thinking that. Stupid punk kids have always been a problem for people, Christ I was one once. As far as punk pranks go, that was a good one. Hopefully nothing comes of it, and I hope that those kids get whats coming to them. But I still have to chuckle at the genius of it.

However this question is indicative of the Canadian mentality regarding our youth. Note the question atthe top. Note that thier is no mention of parents of these kids. THerein lies the real problem in this country with todays kids. Parents are nto thier to care for them, are inconvinienced by them, and clearly not monitoring them. Todays parents seem to not care what thier kids do. I do not blame the kids, I blame the parents. 100 percent. WE expect teachers and government to raise our kids instead, but these things are not thier to do that, they are thier to teach, and to some extant protect our kids. But they are not thier to raise them. Our teachers might be able to a better job if they didn;t have to raise our kids for us.

   

Fuzzy, you are both right and wrong in blaming the parents 100%. Yes, I agree that we as parents are responsible for our CHILDREN and quite a few are dropping the ball in regards to raising and teaching their children how to be good, upstanding citizens. That being said when do we start holding teenagers accountable for their actions?
I have 2 boys, 17 and 15, and they have been held accountable for their actions since they could walk. They were corrected for any misbehavior and shown the correct way to act/do whatever was at fault. By starting this type of action from the time they were toddlers and couldn't get into any really bad stuff, it has made a HUGE diffeence in the way they act today.
They are not angels and still occasionally do something that pisses me off and they are still held accountable for their actions, but, I cannot oversee them 24/7 and have to hope that they remember what they have been taught. Teens today MUST be held accountable for their actions, and by not doing that we are actually making society worse.
I know of kids that are raised in good, upstanding, loving environments and still turn out to be hell raising, disrespectful little shits. Do we hold their parents responsible, and if so for how long?
As far as your comment goes about "chuckling at the genius of it" all I have to say is that you are obviously not a home-owner or a parent because you would never find any humour in such a fucked-up, bullshit, trumped up abuse of the system if you were!
Have a nice day.

   

I don't think we should be blaiming the judicial system, yes it is getting pretty messed up.. but that is only because it represents the basic ideology of our nation...

Canada, is UNARGUABLY a dominant naturalist nation, positivists such as my self are being hammered daily, our own constitution provides Definite proof to such naturalism, such as Section 7, which, correct me if i am wrong, is everyone has the right to fundemental freedoms such as security, liberty and freedom.. i may have mixed em up with teh yank one. my bad...

Our naturalist society demands a judicial system to represent such an ideology.. As kids have these IMPORTANT rights as anyone does, we must do what we can to protect them in any way shape or form... I am not arguing against rehab vs retribution, however, i feal the laws are in place as a means to correct society, that is a very positivist view, but we are a naturalist country, where the laws are in place to protect the rights (maybe god given, if u beleive it) and, as Plato said, "if you don't agree with the laws, than ignore them" as they are only in place to guide you, humanity needs to be driven by morals.. THis i totally disagree with, i beleive laws are needed to be in place to protect everyone, and that rule of law is an important factor... if a law is in place that u don't agree with, don't disobey it, fight it through legislation maybe, but the laws are there, and will evolve (in the best case scenerio) to best fit the stature of the society they govern. You could say plato was the world's first punk, he argued for the Unchanging, unevolving MORAL laws to be the ones that govern society, and if a law is in place that contridicts that morality, regardless of how damaging elimination of such a law would do to the society, must be ignored..

HAS ANYONE HERE READ thomas hobbes liviathan, Marvelous book, marvelous.. i haven't read the thing in a couple yaers, and even than, it was too quick to pick anything up.. next year i am taking a course primarily surrounding the study of positivism throught the liviathan..

   

Ouch, a little sensitive maybe. For the record I am a home owner, and married, and living in a neighbourhood surrounded by so called hoodlums. Or so I hear from my neighbours. I can't say I've ever had any problems with the local kids, although it may help that I treat them with some respect as well and know thier names.

There is an interesting thing about the system that I have noticed in all my years working in it, and for it. People assume that the system should be there for them at alltimes. But they never step up and take account for the system themselves. If you think that this is a trumped up abuse of the system and that people should not stand for this story. One sided as it may be. Then I wuold say do something about it. If these children cause issue in your neighbourhood the correct civic thing to do is to take action to prevent this nonsense.

I do not think that any officer worth his salt in this great country of ours would arrest, having heard this story, from a calm, rational, complacent and cooperative complainant. And if so, then a court appearance may be necessary to resolve this dispute. That is what they are there for. You would have them lynched by the sound of things. Irregardless those that do not stand for it will be held accountable in the end. That is the basis of our system. If you do not like that system, I hear China is nice this time of year.

I suspect that the truth of this issue lies somewhere between the tale we heard and the one given to the police by the teenagers. However, we are so quick to jump on the band wagon and persecute these kids because they are just that, kids. My point is, that we jump to conclusions, and frequently fail to hold those truly responsible accountable, the parents.

We cannot expect to lay responsibility on a party that has no say in thier rights in this country. A teenager is not permitted to vote, run for office, or be treated as a peer by those who judge him. Therefore, we cannot expect them to be held responsible for any civil dissention. As parents it is our legal and moral obligation to hold those children responsible.

And for the record, I have yet to meet a parent who was willing to say what a, and I quote, "fucked-up, bullshit", poor example for thier children they are. However judging by the nomenclature I jsut quoted from your previous post, I suspect that you are a fine parent. Being a role model for calm, moral, and appropriate civil discord during public dissagreements. Your children must be so proud.

By the way , I am not a parent yet, but my wife is one to hundreds every day. And for the record I watched adn participated as my two very different families raised my six siblings, and we still are. Does this make me an expert, of course not, and I don't claim to be. But the idea that your successful merging of sperm and egg makes you one is far more ridiculous in my humble opinion.

I will be sure to have a nice day, thank you.

Fuzz

   

Judging by your avatar, you have served in the airborne, I retract any comments that suggested that you specifically were not civic minded. However I feel the rest stand, and I would like to point out that I am not speaking soley to you 2Cdo, but to all parents.

   

It's todays permissivness that leads them to it. There are stricter societies. We are sending troops to make them act like us.

   

What is at stake here is a worldview.

If you believe that rights are merely privileges granted by government then you do not want individuals wielding their power to defend themselves when you reserve the exercise of power to the all-powerful government.

If, on the other hand, you believe that government only governs by the consent of the governed then you want individuals to be as powerful as they can be as that will make the collective whole that much more secure, stable, and powerful.

Any government, in the latter point of view, that prosecutes someone for defending their person and property or even the person and property of another citizen is underserving of power and should be overthrown. If that overthrow can occur at the ballot box all the better. If not, it still needs to be done.

And what if the 'majority' likes to be enslaved?

That is called 'a tyranny of the majority' and individual rights trump collective wishes each and every time.

The USA, Canada, and the UK all advance collective rights over individual rights anymore. It's disgusting, in my opinion.

   

Here is something maybe not totally off topic.

11 year old charged. assault with deadly weapon, a rock.

   

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