Canadian reporter tells of 460 days of abuse by muslims
BartSimpson @ Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:51 am
Thanos Thanos:
The BlackHawk Down debacle probably permanently scared the militaries away from extractions/rescues in Somalia.
Not all militaries are afraid of the Somalis. The Kenyans have no qualms about going in and 'pacifying' villages when those villages are home to vermin who raid into Kenya.
And by 'pacifying' I mean killing every last male who fights or even looks askance at the Kenyan troopers.
The strategy is most effective given that Kenya has had few border problems since the bad old days of 2011.
Thanos @ Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:15 am
Being the "good guys" (hah!) a mass slaughter of everyone who deserves it probably isn't in our cards anymore. Unfortunately......
GreenTiger @ Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:00 am
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Thanos Thanos:
The BlackHawk Down debacle probably permanently scared the militaries away from extractions/rescues in Somalia.
Not all militaries are afraid of the Somalis. The Kenyans have no qualms about going in and 'pacifying' villages when those villages are home to vermin who raid into Kenya.
And by 'pacifying' I mean killing every last male who fights or even looks askance at the Kenyan troopers.
The strategy is most effective given that Kenya has had few border problems since the bad old days of 2011.
This is kind of interesting. The Kenyans got upset about how the British "pacified" the Mau Mau, but they do the same things for the same reason.
bootlegga @ Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:30 am
saturn_656 saturn_656:
I wouldn't be so quick to say the CF wouldn't have been able pull off an extraction. JTF2 has participated in extractions before, and it isn't as if the Somali thugs would be much of a challenge.
Government probably doesn't want to kind in the habit of paying for elaborate rescues.
Government probably doesn't want to kind in the habit of paying for elaborate rescues.
I have no doubt that JTF2 could do an extraction, but how do you support them? Find good intel about the kidnappers?
I don't think there are too many nations in the region that would support a strike force from Canada, so we'd probably have to do it ourselves.
We don't have a carrier, amphibious assault ship or even the JSS to support them from. We can put a frigate/destroyer there as part of a NATO/US task force, but we can't really support it long term so far from home. We have simply don't have the ability to project force into the region for a long time - especially with our AORs on their last legs.
Then there is the intelligence problem.
We don't have much - if anything - in the way of assets there, so we'd have to either rely on our allies or go in blind. The US or someone else might give us intel, but it would take a helluva lot of effort to get it and then use it so that it doesn't burn their operative there. Odds are, we'd have to rely on locals, and as Thanos noted, they aren't reliable at all.
There is a lot more to rescuing hostages than just dropping a team of commandos somewhere and killing a bunch of bad guys.
bootlegga @ Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:32 am
Thanos Thanos:
The BlackHawk Down debacle probably permanently scared the militaries away from extractions/rescues in Somalia. Mogadishu is a maze of alleys and dead-end streets. Add in intelligence that's probably all flawed by "friendly" locals lying in order to get paid and the whole thing is a non-starter.
It's like when Nick Berg got his head sawed off his neck by Al Qaeda in Iraq. At a certain point of individuals foolishly going to places where no one with any sense ever would their home governments have to be seen as blameless. Sorry, but the diplomatic corps and foreign offices are not there to provide baby sitting and day care services for idiots.
It's like when Nick Berg got his head sawed off his neck by Al Qaeda in Iraq. At a certain point of individuals foolishly going to places where no one with any sense ever would their home governments have to be seen as blameless. Sorry, but the diplomatic corps and foreign offices are not there to provide baby sitting and day care services for idiots.
That's not necessarily true - the US and France (IIRC) rescued hostages in the past couple years from Somali captors. The difference is that they were on ships/boats that were easy to locate, and not located in the rat warrens of Mogadishu.
BartSimpson @ Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:29 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
There is a lot more to rescuing hostages than just dropping a team of commandos somewhere and killing a bunch of bad guys.
But inserting a team of commandos somewhere and killing a bunch of vermin is what it always comes down to.