Christian = Muslim?
sandorski @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:13 pm
SteveK SteveK:
sandorski sandorski:
lolReligion. Regardless of what this guy Claims, regardless of whether he is Christian(funny how people quickly jump to this Defense), or his Mental/Emotional State(I think we can all agree that Dude was crazy, but that doesn't excuse the Religious tie), his justification(honest or not) is clearly written in the "Holy" book that all Christians hold dear. That is undeniable and what makes all Judeo-Christian-Muslim Religion and their many offshoots archaic and False.
That's not a very fair argument to make. This is what separates people who actually understand the text, to people who are simply insane. Just because it is "clearly written" doesn't mean it was put into a proper biblical context. From a Christian perspective, his actions were wrong and inexcusable.
sandorski sandorski:
The "God" of the Bible is neither Righteous nor is it Admirable in any way. We are more Righteous, more Admirable, and more Merciful than this Ego-maniacal, coldly Cruel, and surprisingly Ill-informed character could ever be.
You can't call one who is, by definition, all-perfect and all-powerful an egomaniac. He's not arrogant since he IS that important and great. That is to say, his ego, however large, would be justified.
What is there to understand? The Bible says all sorts of things that are clearly unacceptable by any sane person, including Christians Jews and Muslims(granted they don't use the Bible, but the Koran clearly draws upon the Bible). Christians may dismiss the harshness of the Old Testament, but their claims of "God" and the various attributes of this "God" simply doesn't make the Old Testament disappear.
Why does the "Christian perspective" see his actions as wrong? "God" Commanded such actions, clearly Homosexuality is better off eradicated in "God's" eyes. Also clearly, Christian Morals and Mercy exceeds "God's". Why admire such an inferior being? It makes no sense.
I certainly can call It arrogant. Regardless of the superlative description of that being, It demands adulation and attention like only a self absorbed arrogant being could. A being like that simply has issues with inadequacy and is by definition a high maintenance Attention Whore who demands adulation or else! Neither noble nor praise worthy.
paganmystic @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:37 pm
sandorski wrote;
"his justification(honest or not) is clearly written in the "Holy" book that all Christians hold dear".
That is a misnomer created by religious theological propaganda. They never have followed the practises of Christ. They have had, what, 1600-1700 years to warp and twist the teachings of Christ. Religious people hate those that don't believe as they do; Christian don't. We listen and accept the views of others and engage them in an attempt to make them more Christ-curious. Religious people seek profits and personal gain in wealth and power; Christians don't. We are less self-centered, more humble, in both lifestyle and belief. Religious people have statues and pictures and crucifixes they use to prove who they are, those however are idols and Christians don't worship idols. Our faith is inbound through the Spirit and flows outward by the way we live. That is what Jesus' teaching were about. 
sandorski @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:57 pm
paganmystic paganmystic:
sandorski wrote;
"his justification(honest or not) is clearly written in the "Holy" book that all Christians hold dear".
That is a misnomer created by religious theological propaganda. They never have followed the practises of Christ. They have had, what, 1600-1700 years to warp and twist the teachings of Christ. Religious people hate those that don't believe as they do; Christian don't. We listen and accept the views of others and engage them in an attempt to make them more Christ-curious. Religious people seek profits and personal gain in wealth and power; Christians don't. We are less self-centered, more humble, in both lifestyle and belief. Religious people have statues and pictures and crucifixes they use to prove who they are, those however are idols and Christians don't worship idols. Our faith is inbound through the Spirit and flows outward by the way we live. That is what Jesus' teaching were about.
"his justification(honest or not) is clearly written in the "Holy" book that all Christians hold dear".
That is a misnomer created by religious theological propaganda. They never have followed the practises of Christ. They have had, what, 1600-1700 years to warp and twist the teachings of Christ. Religious people hate those that don't believe as they do; Christian don't. We listen and accept the views of others and engage them in an attempt to make them more Christ-curious. Religious people seek profits and personal gain in wealth and power; Christians don't. We are less self-centered, more humble, in both lifestyle and belief. Religious people have statues and pictures and crucifixes they use to prove who they are, those however are idols and Christians don't worship idols. Our faith is inbound through the Spirit and flows outward by the way we live. That is what Jesus' teaching were about.
Your attempt to differentiate Religion and Christianity is Fail. By any measure, Christianity is Religion.
ShepherdsDog @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:17 pm
it's not my personal belief but a friend of mine who is a Pastor once said the difference was this...religion was man reaching for the gods and Christianity was God reaching for man.
paganmystic @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:18 pm
Sandorski please enlighten me. lol
Obviously you have facts on that. I would be interested in hearing them.
paganmystic @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:25 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
it's not my personal belief but a friend of mine who is a Pastor once said the difference was this...religion was man reaching for the gods and Christianity was God reaching for man.
I like that alot. That is why Jesus. He is the Word made flesh, or the physical essence of God being born into the world of man. To give hope and bring man closer to God through faith. Jesus' lifestyle co-insided with his teachings, hence, I am the light and the way no man can enter the Kingdom of God except through me.(a critical key in being Christian)
ShepherdsDog @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:28 pm
$1:
the physical essence of God being born into the world of man.
That's where I start parting ways with Christianity
SteveK @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:56 pm
sandorski sandorski:
What is there to understand? The Bible says all sorts of things that are clearly unacceptable by any sane person, including Christians Jews and Muslims(granted they don't use the Bible, but the Koran clearly draws upon the Bible). Christians may dismiss the harshness of the Old Testament, but their claims of "God" and the various attributes of this "God" simply doesn't make the Old Testament disappear.
Why does the "Christian perspective" see his actions as wrong? "God" Commanded such actions, clearly Homosexuality is better off eradicated in "God's" eyes. Also clearly, Christian Morals and Mercy exceeds "God's". Why admire such an inferior being? It makes no sense.
I certainly can call It arrogant. Regardless of the superlative description of that being, It demands adulation and attention like only a self absorbed arrogant being could. A being like that simply has issues with inadequacy and is by definition a high maintenance Attention Whore who demands adulation or else! Neither noble nor praise worthy.
Before I get into this, I should say that I'm an agnostic theist, however, I just hold a deep respect for the Christian tradition and still follow it due to my family's history. I don't like seeming like a bible thumper or using religious rhetoric, so I apologize if it comes off that way.
That being said...It would be almost quote mining to suggest that because it was commanded at one point in the Bible, it is God's will. The context of the Bible is very important when interpreting it.
The New Testament is a new covenant, the Old Testament is the old covenant. That's not to say we shouldn't follow the OT, it's to say that a) The NT takes precedence over the OT, and b) The OT needs to be interpreted both allegorically and in the context it was written (This is the Catholic position, at least). Many of the stories in the Bible, especially the old testament, are used to convey meaning and teach us about our nature. Much like Jesus used parables to teach people. If this weren't the case, then the contradictions and different authors wouldn't make sense. The Bible isn't a Science or History textbook, it's the word of God.
The Christian perspective is that we follow Christ and the teachings of Christ. I've pointed out John 8:7 which clearly condemns these actions - "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and Christ also says in Matthew that the 2nd greatest commandment is that we should love our neighbors as ourselves (something key in modern morality). The actions of this deranged man clearly violate Jesus' teachings.
Saying Christians should condemn homosexuality is also arguable. To be a Christian is to be a follower of Christ - that is to say that a Christian should take Christ's words as the most important. Christ never mentioned or condemned homosexuals in any way, and rather gave support for why people should be tolerant and show respect to them.
Anyway, that's my view, and all I have to say on the topic.
ShepherdsDog @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:05 pm
Matthew 5:17
Jesus said he didn't come to replace the laws of the Old Testament. He came to fulfill them. According to this, all the OT rules and regulations are/were still valid, right or wrong.
SteveK @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:32 pm
But that is why Jesus came in the first place. What was written in the OT was NOT being followed i.e. it was not being correctly interpreted. He came to fulfill it - to spread the truth of God's word and his good will. So therefore we should follow Jesus' words and his teachings.
Gunnair @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:52 pm
SteveK SteveK:
But that is why Jesus came in the first place. What was written in the OT was NOT being followed i.e. it was not being correctly interpreted. He came to fulfill it - to spread the truth of God's word and his good will. So therefore we should follow Jesus' words and his teachings.
The problem is, a read of the OT doesn't suggest there's a lot of good will in God.
I picture God as...
TattoodGirl @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:45 pm
Brenda Brenda:
Just that you are in a garage, doesn't make you a car...
Wastn allowed to give you a rep point....but I like this!!!
I am going to hell on a first class ticket anyway...wanna join me, should be fun I think we could shake the joint up
PublicAnimalNo9 @ Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:21 am
The O.T was originally intended for the Hebrew faith. Many of the Laws in the O.T were reflective of the other societies around them. The reason why there is some disassociation between the O.T and the N.T by some Christians, is because the O.T refers to a time when the covenant was between God and a nation. Specifically the Hebrew nation.
When God sent His Son to us, the covenant then became between God and us directly.
Some of the rules did change.
The Ten Commandments didn't change but let's face it, they really aren't terrible rules to at least try and live by are they? And there's nothing in them that mentions anything about gender preferences.
But one rule that did change was a rather all encompassing rule. Hate the sin, but love the sinner. So, even for those close-minded enough to think that being born gay is somehow a sin, you're still expected to tolerate and respect the person and let God do the judging, IF they are to be judged for it at all.
TattoodGirl @ Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:50 am
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
The O.T was originally intended for the Hebrew faith. Many of the Laws in the O.T were reflective of the other societies around them. The reason why there is some disassociation between the O.T and the N.T by some Christians, is because the O.T refers to a time when the covenant was between God and a nation. Specifically the Hebrew nation.
When God sent His Son to us, the covenant then became between God and us directly.
Some of the rules did change.
The Ten Commandments didn't change but let's face it, they really aren't terrible rules to at least try and live by are they? And there's nothing in them that mentions anything about gender preferences.
But one rule that did change was a rather all encompassing rule. Hate the sin, but love the sinner. So, even for those close-minded enough to think that being born gay is somehow a sin, you're still expected to tolerate and respect the person and let God do the judging, IF they are to be judged for it at all.
When God sent His Son to us, the covenant then became between God and us directly.
Some of the rules did change.
The Ten Commandments didn't change but let's face it, they really aren't terrible rules to at least try and live by are they? And there's nothing in them that mentions anything about gender preferences.
But one rule that did change was a rather all encompassing rule. Hate the sin, but love the sinner. So, even for those close-minded enough to think that being born gay is somehow a sin, you're still expected to tolerate and respect the person and let God do the judging, IF they are to be judged for it at all.
Again....wasnt allowed to give your a rep point or two.....but well put
![[B-o]](./images/smilies/drinkup.gif "Drink up")
sandorski @ Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:28 am
paganmystic paganmystic:
sandorski wrote;
"his justification(honest or not) is clearly written in the "Holy" book that all Christians hold dear".
That is a misnomer created by religious theological propaganda. They never have followed the practises of Christ. They have had, what, 1600-1700 years to warp and twist the teachings of Christ. Religious people hate those that don't believe as they do; Christian don't. We listen and accept the views of others and engage them in an attempt to make them more Christ-curious. Religious people seek profits and personal gain in wealth and power; Christians don't. We are less self-centered, more humble, in both lifestyle and belief. Religious people have statues and pictures and crucifixes they use to prove who they are, those however are idols and Christians don't worship idols. Our faith is inbound through the Spirit and flows outward by the way we live. That is what Jesus' teaching were about.
"his justification(honest or not) is clearly written in the "Holy" book that all Christians hold dear".
That is a misnomer created by religious theological propaganda. They never have followed the practises of Christ. They have had, what, 1600-1700 years to warp and twist the teachings of Christ. Religious people hate those that don't believe as they do; Christian don't. We listen and accept the views of others and engage them in an attempt to make them more Christ-curious. Religious people seek profits and personal gain in wealth and power; Christians don't. We are less self-centered, more humble, in both lifestyle and belief. Religious people have statues and pictures and crucifixes they use to prove who they are, those however are idols and Christians don't worship idols. Our faith is inbound through the Spirit and flows outward by the way we live. That is what Jesus' teaching were about.
It is still Religion. Sorry.