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Sorry, first 6 hours of quitting smoking....little bitchy....

   

Good luck to you on quitting.

   

You know, if you ask God for strength and guidance and accept Jesus into your life as your saviour, they can help you through these tough times.

   

   

You know what they say?

- "If she smokes, she pokes."


W.

   

Anyone else read Sam Harris' "End of Faith" or "Letter to a Christian Nation?" I just read the latter - short - punchy and a great read. It revisits much ofd what he wrote in "End of Faith" but more succinctly and with better editing.

   

I didn't mean YOU, I meant George W Bush himself, the president of the USA. And as for calling atheists communists, that sounds like typical American intolerance to me, just like saying how anyone who expresses any remotely moderate thoughts must be 'a liberal' (when it comes to politics, the USA seems like one of the most polarised societies there is)

Maybe I should have added this to my initial post : I SUPPORT the right of people to practice whatever belief / religion they want however in return I feel that anyone who follows any particular belief or religion should accept that there are many people who will have NO INTEREST in it, however hard they try to convert them to their way of thinking.

   

Also : Gerhard Schroeder, the former leader of Germany, has published his memoirs (an English translation will surely be available at some point). I know he was never especially a friend of George W Bush anyhow however he does comment on his obsession with religion.

   

Are you a product of the Canadian public school system? I did not say that all atheists are communists... I said that communists are atheists and that's a fact, jack. Those communists, who were also anti-religious, murdered far, far, far and away more innocent humans during the past century than did the religious.




Then you must be an "Islamophobe." I have no interest in religion either.


Who cares what Gerhard Schroeder has to say? He won his reelection by being not-me. By being the not-Bush. Pathetic...


W.

   

Given that communism has a history extending back to the early 1900s it did indeec kill many.. Religion on the other han extends back centuries and has killed millions more. I'd say the kill rate of the religious far exceeds that of atheists.

   

Over the course of time, yes. But recently, and for the foreseeable future? I will stick with secularists as my bet for the biggest murderers. The only part of the world wherein most decisions have a religious component is the islamic world, and even it is becoming more secular. Turkey, Egypt, etc...

IN THE ABSENCE OF RELIGION, PEOPLE FIND OTHER REASONS TO KILL EACHOTHER. THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT RELIGION.


W.

   

That is condemning a philosophy for what YOU claim it MIGHT do (in the total absence of substantiation) and totally disregarding what theism HAS done in its history. Pretty weak argument.

Theism by its very tenets demands evangelism and efforts to convert the unfaithful who are otherwise damned (in both Islam and Christianity). To be a "moderate Christian" or a "moderate Muslim" and thus tolerate unbelievers without trying to "save them" (even if it means killing them) is a total oxymoron. One CANNOT by definition in either Islam or Christianity be "moderate" You cannot be selective in which tenets to accept to be a true "good Christian" or a "good Muslim." The Jews and the Christians ("People of the Book"), and Muslims (like most religions) revere a very jealous "god" creation that will brook no tolerance of belief in other than "Him". (This conveniently justifies all aggression against others whose goods or lands you covet) The Bible and the Qu'ran are both very clear on this.

Atheism, on the other hand - with the notable and deplorable exception of the murderous excesses of the Communist revolutions (arguably themselves precipitated in reaction to religion's complicity in oppression) makes no such requiremwent to proselytize based on "faith-based" suppositions - only asking that people think rationally and evolve (yes EVOLVE) past primitive superstition. In its ACTUAL history, atheism has proven to be infinitely less murderous than theism. People in history have more often killed in the name of their "god" than in the name of "no God."

   

Wow.

You are a genius.

MENSA, here comes Firecat.

Listen close: my point is that with or without religion people will kill eachother. You proved that you missed that point with you final paragraph.


W.

   

...but usually it's over religion. Since your point was that atheists were more likely to proslytize violently, while mine was that it is the religious who are more guilty of that, I think my post is consistent with my initial thesis.
Sadly, your only recourse is sarcasm...

...although you certainly aren't the first to accuse me of membership in that ridiculous elitist 'organization'.

That comment comes (I'm guessing) from the evidence that I've actually read a lot of religious texts and commentaries that few "believers" have. They certainly do not read critical essays, whereas the atheist does. Ironically then, the atheist is thus often better prepared to discuss religion with more direct knowledge through reading than the religious who eschew such "sinful" tracts and often haven't read the texts they themselves hold sacred. The fundamentalist Christian, then, is often comparatively unarmed when it comes to discussing religion with atheists; We often know the texts and the critiques better.

My own particular interest (as a former Roman Catholic) lies in the inconsistencies in the Gospels. (I know I know - the fundamentalists insists there are none... there are many, from whether Jesus was crucified before or after the Passover Meal (two gospels differ on that point) to what His last words were (they ALL differ).. There are vast theological implications and possible ramifications of each in regards to the understanding and interpretation of the Trinity - but that takes several books to discuss. I can recommend a few, but I doubt you'd read them. The religious rarely do. they are content to "know" without question while the atheist challenges his knowledge continually. It is through study and WORK that I came to atheism.; the religious don't generally trouble themselves to examine their faith with as much depth as a person who has found his way to atheism.

Religion is the easy road that demands no thought - only sheeplike belief in superstition. Atheism bucks that easy road. It takes real thought to throw off the yoke of primitive superstition when it's been so deeply inculcated in one's youth.

Too many big words again?
it's late and I'm going to bed now. Night. If I should die before I wake, oh well, I'll never know it.

   

It's really that simple - I don't understand why people try to put the blame on any particular religion - choices are made by people, not books or prayers.

   

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