non religious secularism(sp?) during Christmas time
Wada @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:36 am
Well heard!Unsound. ![[B-o]](./images/smilies/drinkup.gif "Drink up")
EyeBrock @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:02 pm
Unsound Unsound:
Christmas is what you make of it. I call it Christmas because that's what this particular winter festival has been called in Christian countries for centuries. I'm an athiest, but I have respect for the traditions and culture that this country came from. Whether you believe in Christ or not, I think most of us can agree with the broad ideas that we've come to associate with Christmas.
Peace on earth and goodwill toward all. Whether those goals are realistic or not they're still admirable sentiments and you don't have to believe in any supernatural or spiritual forces to get behind the idea.
This time of year I celebrate mankinds potential for goodness no matter whose name it's in, and I enjoy the time spent eating, drinking, and just generally enjoying the company of loved ones.
Peace on earth and goodwill toward all. Whether those goals are realistic or not they're still admirable sentiments and you don't have to believe in any supernatural or spiritual forces to get behind the idea.
This time of year I celebrate mankinds potential for goodness no matter whose name it's in, and I enjoy the time spent eating, drinking, and just generally enjoying the company of loved ones.
Wada is right, well said Unsound. And a Merry Christmas to you mate!
xerxes @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:04 pm
ASLplease ASLplease:
I was thinking,
wouldn't you agree that secularism, ie non belief ought to be treated with the same respect as religions? I do.
And, since we are fond of restricting christian values when they might offend muslims.....
I think we should restrict aethiest, secular values during Christmas time...I get offended when someone calls my son's Christmas concert a 'winter festival'. I get offended when someone instists that we replace 'oh little town of bethlehem' with frosty the snow man.
anyone have thoughts about this?
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. lets tell all those politically correct people to back the hell off cuz its offending our christian values.
wouldn't you agree that secularism, ie non belief ought to be treated with the same respect as religions? I do.
And, since we are fond of restricting christian values when they might offend muslims.....
I think we should restrict aethiest, secular values during Christmas time...I get offended when someone calls my son's Christmas concert a 'winter festival'. I get offended when someone instists that we replace 'oh little town of bethlehem' with frosty the snow man.
anyone have thoughts about this?
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. lets tell all those politically correct people to back the hell off cuz its offending our christian values.
My thoughts? If you're offended things like that, then you're undies may be too tight.
I'm an unbeliever and if somoeone says Merry Christmas I don't care. I think even if I still believe I wouldn't be offended by some cashier saying happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Say Merry Christmas a couple hundred times a day and see when it loses meaning for you.
Gunnair @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:52 pm
Brenda Brenda:
Yogi Yogi:
I'd be interested in knowing why athiests CELEBRATE the birth of someone they don't believe in! ![[huh]](./images/smilies/icon_scratch.gif "huh?")
We don't. At least, I don't. I celebrate the tradition. And I call it Christmas.
Tradition of what?
Brenda @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:54 pm
Gunnair Gunnair:
Brenda Brenda:
Yogi Yogi:
I'd be interested in knowing why athiests CELEBRATE the birth of someone they don't believe in!
We don't. At least, I don't. I celebrate the tradition. And I call it Christmas.
Tradition of what?
Read Unsounds post. He worded it better than I ever could.
sandorski @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:02 pm
romanP romanP:
ASLplease ASLplease:
i think that in order for the politically correct to be fair and objective they need to stop telling us to refrain from christian traditions and christian greetings during a christian holiday.
It's more of a Coca-Cola holiday than a Christian holiday. I don't remember there being anything about trampling over your neighbours to get a deal on a plasma screen TV at MalWart in the nativity scene.
Look behind the Manger Scene, it's all there, just hidden...
sandorski @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:05 pm
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Apparently it was like April or something. A lot of pagan traditions were adapted or incorporated into Christian ones. Plus there's the confusion over the Gregorian and Julian calendar which puts a lot of dates out.
When I was in Ethiopia they still used the Julian calendar, 13 months and the date was all out of whack. I'm sure they did it just to annoy us and cause problems when we claimed our expenses.
When I was in Ethiopia they still used the Julian calendar, 13 months and the date was all out of whack. I'm sure they did it just to annoy us and cause problems when we claimed our expenses.
This is what makes the controversy all the more Ironic. This is as much a Secular Holiday as it is a Christian or Pagan Holiday. aka, if Christians can make claim to it, so can anyone.
PluggyRug @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:49 pm
sandorski sandorski:
This is what makes the controversy all the more Ironic. This is as much a Secular Holiday as it is a Christian or Pagan Holiday. aka, if Christians can make claim to it, so can anyone.
Thats true.
I'm agnostic, but still imbibe the Christmas spirit.
Still call the event Christmas etc, and wish to keep the tradition alive. It's a great time for children whether Christian or not.Does anyone not believe in Santa Claus?
jason700 @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:11 pm
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
jason700 jason700:
And ASL... I believe Roman already explained this, but unless your childs school is a Christian or Catholic school, it has no business teaching your child Christian hymns. You can sing them with your children at home... or go caroling if you like.
Yep, and if every religious family in Canada decided to yank their kids from the public system and opted for private, the next sound we'd hear from you is bitching cuz your property taxes just went up to make up for the shortfallThat's besides the point. And are Christian parents actually threatening to do this because they don't sing Christian hymns at the school concert?
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
jason700 jason700:
Why try to make every child in the school follow your beliefs? Raise your own children, don't worry about everyone else's.
Kinda like you're insisting when you say school's have no business teaching children CHRISTMAS hymns?
I got news for ya Jack, singing Silent Night isn't going turn your precious children into Christians anymore than singing songs about Santa will turn them into elves. Grow up!
I'm not worried about it turning them into Chistians (even though it IS quite a bit more possible than them turning into elves... that would be kinda neat actually), I'm worried about them feeling excluded or pressured.
Gunnair @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:03 pm
sandorski sandorski:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Apparently it was like April or something. A lot of pagan traditions were adapted or incorporated into Christian ones. Plus there's the confusion over the Gregorian and Julian calendar which puts a lot of dates out.
When I was in Ethiopia they still used the Julian calendar, 13 months and the date was all out of whack. I'm sure they did it just to annoy us and cause problems when we claimed our expenses.
When I was in Ethiopia they still used the Julian calendar, 13 months and the date was all out of whack. I'm sure they did it just to annoy us and cause problems when we claimed our expenses.
This is what makes the controversy all the more Ironic. This is as much a Secular Holiday as it is a Christian or Pagan Holiday. aka, if Christians can make claim to it, so can anyone.
Sadly, the Christian celebration of the Birth of Christ and the hope that that event was supposed to bring is loudly outdone by the more secular Gods of Greed and Materialism.
Lemmy @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:12 pm
Gunnair Gunnair:
Sadly, the Christian celebration of the Birth of Christ and the hope that that event was supposed to bring is loudly outdone by the more secular Gods of Greed and Materialism.
That's a pretty "glass is half empty" way of thinking. I perfer, as an atheist, to celebrate Christmas as a celebration of the "secular gods of family and friendship".
I'll celebrate any relgious observance as an opportunity to get together with friends....and eat. To that end, we'll be celebrating the feast of the first of Muharram this Wednesday by charring up a big pork roast.
ASLplease @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:39 pm
lets get the reference point straight, folks. The elementary schools are NOT full of athiests that dont want christmas, and they are NOT full of muslims either... they are full of Canadians that love Christmas.
And, if its ok for us to bend over backwards when 1 muslim MIGHT be offended, then why don't we use that same 'MIGHT' standard to protect Christmas, instead?
My son MIGHT be offended when the seculars call it a "Winterfest concert.
My son MIGHT be offended when we take away Christ from Christmas Songs, like WTF is that about anyways?
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
desertdude @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:46 pm
Ah ! now I see where this is comming from.
EyeBrock @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:53 pm
Yep DD, it's YOUR fault!
Seriously ASL, it 'aint Mr and Mrs Khan that's changing our accepted traditions. It's old white people deciding what is good for us lowly plebs.
Mulsims, Jews etc aren't trying to kill Christmas and replace it with a bland and meaningless 'holiday'. It's our overly PC leaders.
desertdude @ Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:00 pm
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Yep DD, it's YOUR fault!
P.S : Now my post count reads like Obamas address