Ok, there may be A god somewhere but even so, here on earth why have religion? What has it done? All the endless wars, all the bigotry, all the seedy things that various churches have gotten up to not forgetting all the intolerance and especially the idea of 'my religion is the only right one and all non-believers will burn in hell'. What makes me even more angry is some Christian getting to know you but only really seeing you as a means to an end i.e. to convert you to Christianity (no, they're not interested in you as a person).

And as for the terrifically boring sermons sometimes....zzzzzz........

   

Sadly some need a "purpose" to be decent, and religion has accomplished that, for the most part. As far as religion as a philosophy (of creation, of the meaning of life, etc) I agree that it's useless, but some need the assurance that they aren't alone in their actions, so I don't think it's going to ever completely disappear.

   

Religion just gives people false hope and false incite into "life"... and I gives people a reason not to fear death (or say the unknown...)

   

Religions were created to help people live their lives better and guide people to God. It is really a personal quest one that is spiritual but also affects everything in your life on a day-to-day basis. The ideal behind it is to become a better person.

   

What we would call family values, and decent today have thier roots in religino. Since the time of Moses, the ideas that killing is wrong, that cheating on your spouse, or having multiple spouses is wrong, that you should respect your mother and father, and so on, have been put forth by all the Abrahamic religions. (Christianity, Judasim, and Islam) Up until that time it was beleived that it was okay to kill people in order that there be a good crop the following spring.

The church has always provided both a moral centre and a place for community to meet. For thousands of years, streching back to the times of Zues and Apollo worship this has been true. These values put forth by the churches and temples of their day have been passed down from generation to generation, and we can find their bases in books such as the Bible, or Koran. Before I go on, I must state that I am not a religious person, and that I do not attend church, temple, or otherwise.

But I can see the value in religion. As not only a place for community, and moral guidance, if not by their actions then at least by their words, but also as a vehicle for social change, and for indviduals to belive in love. Not romantic love, but the infinate, unwavering love of some supreme being. Love that some people did not get from their family or community, and that can be a powerfull thing for people who belive that they have no inheriant worth. Wheather that be Allah, God, Jahova, or a diry sock in the corner, it can be valuable.

Organised religion has gotten a bad name recently due to the actions of some extremeists, crooks, and pedophiles. But you have to look past the few wrong doings of some whack jobs to see the true value that religion puts forth, infinate love for you, no matter how much you may screw up, and and the idea of community that is more than just your next door neighbours.

I dont think it is fair to generally lump religion together and say it is useless simply because you think its stupid to worship a carpenters son who lived 2000 years ago. If it helps people to lead better more productive lives, is it not a good thing? Besides, just because you, or I don't belive, doesn't mean to say that we aren't the ones who are wrong.

   

I beg to differ. Religions wree created for two primary reasons: first: to provide early man with explanations for the otherwise unexplainable at the time and second, to provide a framework for social order.

Genesis, for example offers explanation(s - two actually) to the "where did we come from?" curiosity; Exodus offers an "history"
Leviticus is all laws. That is so important in the context of the nature of religion it is reiterated all over again in Deuteronomy.

Numbers is an oddity, consisting of census information of the Israelites, and fits into the "where did we come from?" category of history.

If anyone is intersted I direct you to a terrific series on Slate.com by David Plotz, called "Blogging the Bible." It is an ongoing series in whivh the author is reading and making notes on the Bible from beginning to end.

It can be find at this link:
BLOGGING THE BIBLE
http://www.slate.com/?id=3944&cp=2141046

   

So what exactly am I doing? Morality would exist without the church, because we wouldn't survive without it.

   

I think you're wrong, I don't think people use religion as a purpose to be decent. Rather as a tool in order to make themselves the people they feel they should be. People that I know anyway, don't join a religion to convince themselves they need to be better, they've made that decision before hand and they feel religion can help. What's with all the religion bashing anyway?

   

I think most people (speaking about our society mostly) are good because its part of our society. People are good without religion and people are good with it.

Religion evolved over a millenia as a social order, an educational order, and a spiritual order.

Religion can help and religion can harm. Its not the actual religion that matters but the "social order" it brings.

   

That's a much better description, I guess - I was being a little too brash.

It's just that the reply I often hear when is that if there's no God, that we would have no meaning in our lives, and there's nothing keeping me from killing and raping people - these are people that assume an afterlife is the only real reason for being a decent person.

   

Morality is subjective. Our morals are quite different than those in the middle east. We believe in corrective measures and rehabilitation. Some places in the world still stone people for commiting adultery. Our morality has been passed down to us through Christian and Jewish doctorane, as our ancestors lived their lives according to the teachings of the church, and passed those teachings on to their children.

To some survival of the fittest ruled by the strongest, ruled by the strongest, and by force, is moraly right. We would survive under that type of rule and law, but it would only promote a good quality of life for a select few. What most major religions promote is a sense of equality, and quality of life for all, as "We are all god's children." (Not my words, but hey what it comes down to is that we are all people, and we all deserve equality in life and standard of living.)

   

Sure, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't exist without religion.

We would not survive as a civilization under that ideal. People have tried that, and they ultimately fail.

No, we don't "deserve" any standard of living. You've said yourself that morality is subjective, and that viewpoint of equality is not an exception.

   

Religion debates are bigger merry-go-rounds than abortion debates.