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'We might become extinct'

This is an interesting article about the loss of pines trees and the possible effects on aboriginal communities in the interior of BC.

   

That's kind a creepy.Even though people know this is happening, they still don't learn.

   

Nature's way of killing off old stands of mature pine.I can drive to the blocks we cut on the beetle kill 28 years ago and as the young pine werent affected by the beetle,they are now growing nicely after all the old pine was removed. Beetles cant hurt younger pine as the sap flow will quickly kick them out. sound's like something more then pine beetles causing the invironmental problems described in the article.

   

Like Deforestation perhaps?

   

Sound's like their predicting the end of the world.

It started way before that as we were on the beetle kill program in 78,same was going on in neighboring flathead valley BC.

If would have to be a swarm to kill a young pine,sap flow is the trick,most young un's can survive an attack. Sounds like someone needs a big forest fire.

   

Usually it's fire but since we havent been burning or allowing forests to burn pine can then mature and the beetles have lots of grub,the fire's usually come after the beetle as the tree's dry out very fast after being ringed.

   

mankind will kill itself. We are eventually going to kill ourselves, and If we don't nature sure will. She is pissed off at us right now......

   

That's a good article. It's clear that climate change is the main factor now in the spread of the mountain pine beetle, and doubts over whether the forest will be able to regenerate. But it was good that the article noted that it's likely that the problem has got out of hand because the natives are no longer allowed to do their traditional practices of controlled burning to keep the forest in balance.

People wonder why natives supposedly bum around all day and the kids don't appear to have any interest in their culture and keeping the knowledge alive -but it seems that if communities aren't allowed to do their practices and keep their complex ecological knowledge alive, then what chance does the next generation have to realise its importance? There is little willingness for the Canadian government to recognise and value the incredible systems of ecological management that these communities have practiced for many generations, and which offer a better chance for sustainable land use, livelihoods, medicine, health and pride.

Actually this is a problem everywhere else too. I've worked with groups in Kenya and Botswana whose pleas to enter into partnership wiht the supposed "conservationists" have come to nothing. The conservationists arrogantly think they know best, and often kick the people off the land in the misguided belief that "nature" and "people" cannot co-exist. There are estimated to be millions of what are known as "conservation refugees" around the world, kicked off their territory. And the environment changes - it does not get "preserved". It usually progresses to climax vegetation which actually has lower biodiversity and supports fewer animals than when being carefully managed. It's now recognised that the Maasai, with their careful and intelligent systems of grazing actually enhanced biodiversity in the Rift Valley, but they still get kicked off most of the big game parks because supposedly the Western tourists don't want to see people ruining their fantasy of what real nature should look like.

   

1) Stop putting out every little fire and allow controlled burns. They do this in parts of California and some major wildfires have stopped dead when they come up to the forests that have been allowed to burn.

2) Even if every pine were to die there's no reason why another tree, like Doug fir or even Sequoias, could not be planted in its place.

3) Even if every tree were to die and not be replaced it is still jumping to conclusions to say that the people and culture would be extinct because of that. The forests of Israel, Lebanon, Cyprus, Crete, Greece, Carthage, & etc. are ancient memories yet the cultures persist.

   

1) Yes, the article discusses this as one cause of rampant beetle infestation.

2)If half the pine have dissappeared in the last 5 years and the rest go in the next 5 years any planting started now will not be viable for years to come.

3) The cultures of these areas have changed many times in the last 5000 years. How much climate, deforestation and farming effected change on these cultures we may never know.

We do know that many North American cultures and languages have been wiped out for various reasons. If the aboriginals leave this area for 'greener pastures' in the cities their languages and cultures will be lost for all time.

   

The article claims that the beetles are targeting younger trees every year. Because of the size of the infestation trees younger than 20 years old are now being killed by the beetles.

Part 2 of the problem is large scale logging cutting down pine in the path of the beetle as fast as possible. I wonder what they are replanting with and if they are even replanting fast enough to keep pace with what they are harvesting.

   

Lot's wrong in that article,Now unless every single tree mature's in the next 5 years I see that as an impossibility,what about the young pine's under 5 years? Haveing worked on the beetlekill program in it's infancy I can only say that there is an agenda behind that article. I may go for a cruise in the mountains today and i'll take some pics of the blocks we selective cut and the one's we clear cut allmost 30 years ago,rest assurred the forest is flourishing. One thing a fire will do is replenish a pine forest,pine cones open at extreme temps mostly brought on by fire or the sun and the fact that they act like a mini furnace.Spruce open at under 100 farenhieght and will die in a fire,that's why pine will allways take over another pine forest after a fire,often choking each other out and needing thinning to survive.

One thing lots dont understand is those stands of red you see are pine that have been dead for over a year.And unless someone developed a superbeetle I have allway seen the younger pine kick them out,that's where the sap tubes come from. Last I looked there was more then pine in BC.

This isnt the first article I have seen in the last few month's about how bad the pine beetles would be,wonder where these scientists were in 78 when the beetles started migrating into BC and Alberta.

   

How can they target younger tree's every year? They target all pine tree's,allways have and allways will,just the younger tree's with a good sap flow kick them out. The large scale logging is cutting down the dead red tree's as they only have about 2 marketable years to get them to the mill before they check and arent good for anything.

The govt.beetlekill program now is just a feel good program to make the public feel they are doing something. You cant win against the beetles,you cant fight mother nature.

   

So what is being done with the land after the dead wood has been harvested? Do they scorch it and wait for new pine growth, plant a new forest, or just leave it alone?

   

No different then any other logging block,once the tree's are red their dead and the beetles have long since moved away to greener pasture's. The clearcut's were replanted and still look like any other clearcut,the selective block's have grown back nicely as pine are interspersed with fir and spruce here(like BC has cedar and other specie's) and you would have a hard time telling anyone logged that. Look at it this way,if you dont harvest the beetle kill it will become a major fire hazard,anything you see getting harvested was infected and died at least a year ago.

Good job though that beetlekill,flying around in choppers,compassing in on red tree's,getting picked up on a hillside as the chopper tried to get low enough so you could get in one at a time without flipping it,pilot's were mostly vietnam vet's,good make work project from the government.That's all it was and all it still is.

The logging outfit's loved it,cut ten mile's of roads into a stand of beetlekill(through prime stands)to get at ten tree's that were dead a year ago but are red from the air. That's why I think that article has a tad of bias to it,I'm not an expert but I know that what I saw on my two year "beetle"tour doesnt jive with that article,and I talked to lot's of entomologist's and know what i've seen and young pine are not susceptible to attack unless it's a major major swarm and that's very rare.

   

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